1 00:00:02,470 --> 00:00:00,150 [Music] 2 00:00:04,550 --> 00:00:02,480 i am george knapp listening to that ufo 3 00:00:08,070 --> 00:00:04,560 podcast and having one hell of a good 4 00:00:13,030 --> 00:00:10,470 hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo 5 00:00:15,509 --> 00:00:13,040 podcast my name is andy and it's been an 6 00:00:17,269 --> 00:00:15,519 intriguing interesting confusing and at 7 00:00:19,750 --> 00:00:17,279 times frustrating year for those of us 8 00:00:21,349 --> 00:00:19,760 with a passion for the ufo subject but 9 00:00:23,590 --> 00:00:21,359 there has rarely been a week gone by 10 00:00:25,269 --> 00:00:23,600 without something new to discuss to go 11 00:00:27,029 --> 00:00:25,279 over some of the highlights of the year 12 00:00:30,150 --> 00:00:27,039 so far i'd like to welcome back to the 13 00:00:32,389 --> 00:00:30,160 podcast two guests whose book uh along 14 00:00:34,470 --> 00:00:32,399 with james akatsuki skinwalkers at the 15 00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:34,480 pentagon was certainly a highlight of 16 00:00:38,950 --> 00:00:37,120 last year and a big big talking point dr 17 00:00:41,350 --> 00:00:38,960 colm kelleher and george knapp will come 18 00:00:42,470 --> 00:00:41,360 back to the podcast gents ready 19 00:00:45,190 --> 00:00:42,480 to be here 20 00:00:47,270 --> 00:00:45,200 it is excellent to have you on and i 21 00:00:48,790 --> 00:00:47,280 apologize to the listeners who asked 22 00:00:50,310 --> 00:00:48,800 questions and i was trying to keep this 23 00:00:52,470 --> 00:00:50,320 a different format as i've just 24 00:00:54,150 --> 00:00:52,480 discussed so this one is more of a kind 25 00:00:55,590 --> 00:00:54,160 of highlights pod but thanks to everyone 26 00:00:56,950 --> 00:00:55,600 who sent me over questions hopefully 27 00:00:59,910 --> 00:00:56,960 some of those will get answered within 28 00:01:02,069 --> 00:00:59,920 the the body of the conversation anyway 29 00:01:04,549 --> 00:01:02,079 um big highlight that happened very 30 00:01:07,030 --> 00:01:04,559 recently george i'll come to you first 31 00:01:08,870 --> 00:01:07,040 was the confirmation announcement 32 00:01:11,429 --> 00:01:08,880 unveiling whatever you want to call it 33 00:01:13,510 --> 00:01:11,439 of of travis taylor being the chief 34 00:01:16,149 --> 00:01:13,520 scientist behind the uap task force and 35 00:01:18,789 --> 00:01:16,159 the report this was news to certainly 36 00:01:22,310 --> 00:01:18,799 99.9 percent of the the population it 37 00:01:24,230 --> 00:01:22,320 seems um i wonder george how long did 38 00:01:27,350 --> 00:01:24,240 you know about this already i'm 39 00:01:29,429 --> 00:01:27,360 presuming you know ahead of time 40 00:01:30,789 --> 00:01:29,439 uh not very long for i want to say this 41 00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:30,799 andy first of all you know we're 42 00:01:36,310 --> 00:01:33,360 recording this on the 4th of july and i 43 00:01:38,630 --> 00:01:36,320 being the only native born colonial here 44 00:01:40,870 --> 00:01:38,640 i would like to say uh king george go 45 00:01:43,270 --> 00:01:40,880 home um 46 00:01:45,510 --> 00:01:43,280 i'm outnumbered by brits or experts and 47 00:01:47,350 --> 00:01:45,520 uh just you know enjoying the holiday i 48 00:01:49,910 --> 00:01:47,360 hope everyone is as well regarding 49 00:01:52,310 --> 00:01:49,920 travis july apologies yeah happy fourth 50 00:01:55,030 --> 00:01:52,320 of july happy holidays yeah independence 51 00:01:56,310 --> 00:01:55,040 day um just a little background on 52 00:01:58,550 --> 00:01:56,320 travis taylor 53 00:02:00,069 --> 00:01:58,560 i you know i first met him 54 00:02:01,990 --> 00:02:00,079 right around the time that the 55 00:02:04,069 --> 00:02:02,000 skinwalker show had been announced there 56 00:02:07,109 --> 00:02:04,079 was some kind of a history channel event 57 00:02:09,589 --> 00:02:07,119 at a at a ufo convention and he was 58 00:02:11,350 --> 00:02:09,599 there and and we got introduced 59 00:02:13,030 --> 00:02:11,360 after the formal event 60 00:02:15,110 --> 00:02:13,040 and he looked at me like i was a 61 00:02:16,229 --> 00:02:15,120 criminal i mean he uh with great 62 00:02:17,830 --> 00:02:16,239 suspicion 63 00:02:20,070 --> 00:02:17,840 and i think that his 64 00:02:22,309 --> 00:02:20,080 his suspicions continued for a long time 65 00:02:24,390 --> 00:02:22,319 you know he he's explained to me since 66 00:02:26,710 --> 00:02:24,400 then since we've had sort of a more of a 67 00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:26,720 dialogue that he went into the whole 68 00:02:31,830 --> 00:02:29,440 skinwalker ranch tv show 69 00:02:33,190 --> 00:02:31,840 as a profound skeptic in the sense that 70 00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:33,200 he thought 71 00:02:36,390 --> 00:02:35,120 he's not skeptical about ufo stuff 72 00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:36,400 necessarily but 73 00:02:39,509 --> 00:02:37,920 he felt that there was some kind of scam 74 00:02:41,509 --> 00:02:39,519 going on about the ranch that either it 75 00:02:44,309 --> 00:02:41,519 was the bigelow organization 76 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:44,319 or me and me and column as authors 77 00:02:48,070 --> 00:02:46,480 trying to scam this or maybe it was a 78 00:02:50,630 --> 00:02:48,080 foreign government the russians or the 79 00:02:52,630 --> 00:02:50,640 chinese or maybe american intelligence 80 00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:52,640 agencies playing games out there that 81 00:02:55,990 --> 00:02:54,560 the phenomena was not real and that we 82 00:02:58,070 --> 00:02:56,000 had written about it and blown up way 83 00:03:00,470 --> 00:02:58,080 out of proportion he was highly dubious 84 00:03:02,309 --> 00:03:00,480 about the whole enterprise 85 00:03:04,390 --> 00:03:02,319 fast forward a year 86 00:03:06,949 --> 00:03:04,400 from that point and his attitude had 87 00:03:08,710 --> 00:03:06,959 changed profoundly because he had had 88 00:03:10,229 --> 00:03:08,720 his own experiences he'd been on the 89 00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:10,239 ground their boots on the ground on the 90 00:03:12,949 --> 00:03:11,120 ranch 91 00:03:13,910 --> 00:03:12,959 and had seen things that he could not 92 00:03:16,229 --> 00:03:13,920 explain 93 00:03:18,470 --> 00:03:16,239 one of the things that he saw there was 94 00:03:20,550 --> 00:03:18,480 something that he felt had national 95 00:03:23,190 --> 00:03:20,560 security implications i don't know 96 00:03:25,990 --> 00:03:23,200 exactly what that event was but he went 97 00:03:28,390 --> 00:03:26,000 to some folks in the pentagon whom he 98 00:03:31,830 --> 00:03:28,400 suspected had some kind of a connection 99 00:03:34,070 --> 00:03:31,840 to the ufo study and he told him about 100 00:03:36,070 --> 00:03:34,080 and the guy that he went to go see is 101 00:03:38,149 --> 00:03:36,080 the was the person who was in charge of 102 00:03:41,270 --> 00:03:38,159 what later became known as the uap task 103 00:03:43,430 --> 00:03:41,280 force the uap task force existed before 104 00:03:45,910 --> 00:03:43,440 it existed it was already existence long 105 00:03:47,670 --> 00:03:45,920 before congress formally created it 106 00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:47,680 there was an organization 107 00:03:52,550 --> 00:03:50,480 uh headed by a really professional guy 108 00:03:54,630 --> 00:03:52,560 we can get into his name if you want who 109 00:03:56,630 --> 00:03:54,640 had been at this for a long time who'd 110 00:03:58,309 --> 00:03:56,640 worked for the u.s navy as an 111 00:03:59,509 --> 00:03:58,319 intelligence officer had worked for the 112 00:04:02,149 --> 00:03:59,519 dia 113 00:04:04,710 --> 00:04:02,159 he was highly respected and this sort of 114 00:04:06,869 --> 00:04:04,720 fell in his lap to investigate military 115 00:04:09,270 --> 00:04:06,879 encounters with ufos and then other 116 00:04:11,830 --> 00:04:09,280 phenomena he had familiarity with both 117 00:04:13,110 --> 00:04:11,840 the needs organization with the asap 118 00:04:18,229 --> 00:04:13,120 program 119 00:04:20,469 --> 00:04:18,239 well and work with lou elizondo travis 120 00:04:22,710 --> 00:04:20,479 goes to see him tells him about this 121 00:04:23,749 --> 00:04:22,720 experience that he had on the ranch 122 00:04:25,030 --> 00:04:23,759 this guy 123 00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:25,040 thinks about it for a while and then 124 00:04:29,189 --> 00:04:27,520 invited him to join the uap task force 125 00:04:31,909 --> 00:04:29,199 as the chief scientist 126 00:04:34,070 --> 00:04:31,919 column and i had suspicions that travis 127 00:04:35,830 --> 00:04:34,080 knew more than he'd ever let on 128 00:04:37,510 --> 00:04:35,840 we had private conversations that column 129 00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:37,520 could weigh in on there 130 00:04:41,670 --> 00:04:39,680 but you know i interviewed travis a 131 00:04:44,469 --> 00:04:41,680 month earlier before this big interview 132 00:04:46,310 --> 00:04:44,479 about his secret role broke out and had 133 00:04:48,390 --> 00:04:46,320 talked to him about the ranch how about 134 00:04:49,990 --> 00:04:48,400 his personal experiences about medical 135 00:04:51,830 --> 00:04:50,000 consequences things that had happened 136 00:04:54,870 --> 00:04:51,840 him on the property exposure to 137 00:04:57,830 --> 00:04:54,880 radiation hitchhiker effects uh things 138 00:04:58,710 --> 00:04:57,840 of that sort and i had no idea at that 139 00:05:00,310 --> 00:04:58,720 time 140 00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:00,320 in fact that he was wearing this other 141 00:05:05,909 --> 00:05:03,520 hat it was a few weeks later that i i 142 00:05:07,909 --> 00:05:05,919 learned and the reason that he came 143 00:05:09,590 --> 00:05:07,919 clean with me about it is 144 00:05:10,790 --> 00:05:09,600 he had found out that there was a foia 145 00:05:13,510 --> 00:05:10,800 release 146 00:05:14,950 --> 00:05:13,520 of his emails to the guy we're talking 147 00:05:16,550 --> 00:05:14,960 about jay stratton who was the head of 148 00:05:18,230 --> 00:05:16,560 the uap task force 149 00:05:19,830 --> 00:05:18,240 and they thought that they were worried 150 00:05:21,830 --> 00:05:19,840 that they were concerned that a lot of 151 00:05:23,749 --> 00:05:21,840 these emails were going to come out 152 00:05:25,990 --> 00:05:23,759 and that their names would be revealed i 153 00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:26,000 don't think that in actuality what was 154 00:05:30,070 --> 00:05:28,880 released through foia identified either 155 00:05:32,629 --> 00:05:30,080 one of them i think the names were 156 00:05:34,950 --> 00:05:32,639 redacted but he wanted to be able to 157 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:34,960 explain what his role was before it came 158 00:05:38,950 --> 00:05:36,720 spilling out on a foia request and got 159 00:05:41,909 --> 00:05:38,960 twisted and turned by you know what the 160 00:05:43,430 --> 00:05:41,919 ufo twitter is like and ufo social media 161 00:05:44,950 --> 00:05:43,440 who knows he could come out looking like 162 00:05:47,110 --> 00:05:44,960 a super villain by the time he was done 163 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:47,120 with it so he agreed to speak to me and 164 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:49,840 i had gone to this scu conference in 165 00:05:53,749 --> 00:05:50,880 huntsville 166 00:05:55,350 --> 00:05:53,759 where it was a great lineup of speakers 167 00:05:56,629 --> 00:05:55,360 and even more impressive than the 168 00:05:59,110 --> 00:05:56,639 speakers were the people who were in the 169 00:06:01,189 --> 00:05:59,120 audience listening to the event 170 00:06:03,350 --> 00:06:01,199 uh jay stratton was one of them travis 171 00:06:05,270 --> 00:06:03,360 taylor eric davis a former colleague of 172 00:06:06,390 --> 00:06:05,280 columns a lot of other really 173 00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:06,400 interesting people who are in the 174 00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:09,440 audience who are part of that aerospace 175 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:11,440 think tank and industry that's 176 00:06:16,550 --> 00:06:13,840 blossoming down there in huntsville 177 00:06:18,790 --> 00:06:16,560 along with sort of an unofficial ufo 178 00:06:21,110 --> 00:06:18,800 hotspot in terms of people who've 179 00:06:24,150 --> 00:06:21,120 researched the topic are all there i got 180 00:06:26,629 --> 00:06:24,160 to spend some time with travis kind of 181 00:06:28,550 --> 00:06:26,639 talked him into going on camera and he 182 00:06:30,710 --> 00:06:28,560 told the story and look there's no one 183 00:06:33,510 --> 00:06:30,720 more surprised than i was because i can 184 00:06:35,590 --> 00:06:33,520 tell you he was intensely hostile to the 185 00:06:38,870 --> 00:06:35,600 subject matter of skinwalker ranch at 186 00:06:40,550 --> 00:06:38,880 the beginning to say he's a skeptic 187 00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:40,560 is not doing him justice he was 188 00:06:44,550 --> 00:06:43,039 extremely skeptical about the nature and 189 00:06:47,350 --> 00:06:44,560 source of the events that were happening 190 00:06:49,110 --> 00:06:47,360 on the ranch he's since changed he does 191 00:06:50,629 --> 00:06:49,120 he did what scientists are supposed to 192 00:06:52,230 --> 00:06:50,639 do you go in there 193 00:06:54,309 --> 00:06:52,240 and you investigate you put boots on the 194 00:06:56,070 --> 00:06:54,319 ground and you find out for yourself 195 00:06:57,990 --> 00:06:56,080 and he found out that this stuff is real 196 00:06:59,670 --> 00:06:58,000 now explaining it that's another matter 197 00:07:02,230 --> 00:06:59,680 that's still a challenge but 198 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:02,240 i applaud his courage in 199 00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:04,240 taking on the responsibility 200 00:07:09,029 --> 00:07:06,080 and wearing the two hats both as being 201 00:07:12,070 --> 00:07:09,039 part of the uap task force and then also 202 00:07:14,469 --> 00:07:12,080 working on the tv series and in standing 203 00:07:16,390 --> 00:07:14,479 up to what he knew was inevitable he was 204 00:07:18,390 --> 00:07:16,400 going to get slimed 205 00:07:20,309 --> 00:07:18,400 as soon as the news came out he knew it 206 00:07:22,390 --> 00:07:20,319 i knew it but he was willing to go 207 00:07:24,550 --> 00:07:22,400 forward with it anyway and and uh it's 208 00:07:26,790 --> 00:07:24,560 exactly what the topic needs people with 209 00:07:29,110 --> 00:07:26,800 his credentials and his credentials are 210 00:07:31,029 --> 00:07:29,120 astounding and i don't want to read it 211 00:07:32,469 --> 00:07:31,039 but i mean five different advanced 212 00:07:35,909 --> 00:07:32,479 degrees 213 00:07:38,469 --> 00:07:35,919 two phds astrophysics and optical 214 00:07:40,790 --> 00:07:38,479 physics and engineering and astronomy 215 00:07:43,029 --> 00:07:40,800 and you know he's exactly the person you 216 00:07:45,189 --> 00:07:43,039 would want to have in there based on 217 00:07:46,629 --> 00:07:45,199 credentials alone and the fact that he 218 00:07:48,629 --> 00:07:46,639 is open 219 00:07:50,950 --> 00:07:48,639 he's not a true believer as i think i've 220 00:07:52,710 --> 00:07:50,960 seen described he's a believer in that 221 00:07:54,790 --> 00:07:52,720 this is worth studying it's worth 222 00:07:56,390 --> 00:07:54,800 investigating to find out what it is 223 00:07:58,150 --> 00:07:56,400 he's not saying it's aliens he's not 224 00:07:59,589 --> 00:07:58,160 saying it's time travelers he doesn't 225 00:08:01,749 --> 00:07:59,599 know what it is he's doing what 226 00:08:04,230 --> 00:08:01,759 scientists are supposed to do go to the 227 00:08:06,629 --> 00:08:04,240 source investigate do some experiments 228 00:08:08,550 --> 00:08:06,639 see if he can figure it out so anyway i 229 00:08:10,710 --> 00:08:08,560 i hope i didn't get off on too much of a 230 00:08:12,469 --> 00:08:10,720 tangent there but that's the that's the 231 00:08:14,469 --> 00:08:12,479 story in a nutshell 232 00:08:16,309 --> 00:08:14,479 no not at all my only issue george with 233 00:08:17,990 --> 00:08:16,319 you is that your interview came out 234 00:08:20,309 --> 00:08:18,000 about four or five days after i 235 00:08:22,230 --> 00:08:20,319 interviewed travis taylor myself and if 236 00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:22,240 i just waited four or five days i could 237 00:08:26,390 --> 00:08:24,160 have had the first interview after you 238 00:08:27,909 --> 00:08:26,400 so yeah i'll uh just put that one down 239 00:08:29,430 --> 00:08:27,919 at a bad time and 240 00:08:30,790 --> 00:08:29,440 call yeah same thing for me i just 241 00:08:32,949 --> 00:08:30,800 interviewed him a couple weeks before 242 00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:32,959 and it was a great interview him he was 243 00:08:36,949 --> 00:08:35,680 very forthright as you know andy in in 244 00:08:38,550 --> 00:08:36,959 describing the things that have happened 245 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:38,560 to him and the things that they've 246 00:08:43,990 --> 00:08:40,880 encountered on the ranch 247 00:08:45,509 --> 00:08:44,000 but we never got into that specific uh 248 00:08:47,430 --> 00:08:45,519 topic in that earlier interview and i 249 00:08:49,190 --> 00:08:47,440 was i was floored like everyone else was 250 00:08:50,389 --> 00:08:49,200 when it came out 251 00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:50,399 yeah i i 252 00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:53,120 changed my opinion slightly on on dr 253 00:08:57,030 --> 00:08:54,880 travis taylor and speaking to him and 254 00:08:59,030 --> 00:08:57,040 the way comes across and because he has 255 00:09:00,710 --> 00:08:59,040 a tv persona and i'm going to ask you 256 00:09:03,509 --> 00:09:00,720 about that in just a minute but calm 257 00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:03,519 what was your reaction to finding out dr 258 00:09:07,829 --> 00:09:05,440 taylor was leading the task force from a 259 00:09:10,230 --> 00:09:07,839 scientific point of view well as george 260 00:09:12,630 --> 00:09:10,240 mentioned you know george and i have 261 00:09:15,750 --> 00:09:12,640 sort of talked about travis for for 262 00:09:17,910 --> 00:09:15,760 quite a while and um i i also have known 263 00:09:18,790 --> 00:09:17,920 jay stratton for many years 264 00:09:21,110 --> 00:09:18,800 um 265 00:09:23,829 --> 00:09:21,120 and you know informally there was a sort 266 00:09:27,350 --> 00:09:23,839 of a discussion group formed around the 267 00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:27,360 uap task force before it became official 268 00:09:31,750 --> 00:09:29,200 and you know there would be zoom calls 269 00:09:33,190 --> 00:09:31,760 and telephone calls and signal texts and 270 00:09:35,190 --> 00:09:33,200 all of that and 271 00:09:37,430 --> 00:09:35,200 travis's name came up very very 272 00:09:40,150 --> 00:09:37,440 frequently that during these 273 00:09:42,710 --> 00:09:40,160 conversations with these people who were 274 00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:42,720 either on the task force or who were 275 00:09:47,269 --> 00:09:45,200 associated with the task force as 276 00:09:50,630 --> 00:09:47,279 consultants i mean there was a sort of 277 00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:50,640 an informal yet another budding offshoot 278 00:09:55,269 --> 00:09:53,600 of the invisible college kind of thing 279 00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,279 that we're discussing 280 00:10:00,630 --> 00:09:57,360 um 281 00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:00,640 what was going on with the the ufo topic 282 00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:03,279 and you know interestingly um this was 283 00:10:07,430 --> 00:10:05,279 way before we had published you know 284 00:10:08,949 --> 00:10:07,440 skin markers at the pentagon this was 285 00:10:10,870 --> 00:10:08,959 even before 286 00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:10,880 the task force was officially announced 287 00:10:16,630 --> 00:10:13,760 but travis taylor's name came up again 288 00:10:18,389 --> 00:10:16,640 and again and again so i mean i i kind 289 00:10:21,350 --> 00:10:18,399 of knew he was 290 00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:21,360 um part of that informal circle i 291 00:10:25,350 --> 00:10:23,519 certainly didn't know he was the chief 292 00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:25,360 uh you know the chief the chief 293 00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:27,279 scientist of the of the 294 00:10:31,509 --> 00:10:29,360 the whole enterprise but you know as 295 00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:31,519 things got more and more official over 296 00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:32,480 time 297 00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:35,120 yet the the task force 298 00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:37,920 people changed the numbers of different 299 00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:40,480 people who were associated in the inner 300 00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:43,040 circle and the consultants changed over 301 00:10:48,069 --> 00:10:45,600 time but you know one thing that that 302 00:10:51,269 --> 00:10:48,079 you know really struck me about the task 303 00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:51,279 force was even from the very very early 304 00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:53,519 days of the task force before it became 305 00:10:59,670 --> 00:10:56,560 official there was a sort of an unspoken 306 00:11:03,030 --> 00:10:59,680 understanding and agreement that the the 307 00:11:04,389 --> 00:11:03,040 focus of the ufo topic should go beyond 308 00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,399 this um 309 00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:06,160 only the physics and the engineering 310 00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:08,959 aspects of ufo performance and that it 311 00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:11,600 should be a lot broader and i was always 312 00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:13,839 struck in my conversations with these 313 00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:16,240 people who are either part of the task 314 00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:19,519 force or informal consultants about how 315 00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,680 number one incredibly knowledgeable they 316 00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:23,440 were about the 317 00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:27,200 um you know effects of ufo a few ufos on 318 00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:29,839 people including all of the skinwalker 319 00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:32,800 ranch lore and a lot of these people 320 00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:35,120 were very familiar with the nuts and 321 00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:36,959 bolts of what happened on skinwalker 322 00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:38,000 range so 323 00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:40,079 um i found the task force and their 324 00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:43,120 consultants to be tremendously open 325 00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:46,000 open-minded way way more open-minded 326 00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:46,959 than 327 00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:49,200 say a lot of the people who have 328 00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:52,000 received our book you know skim workers 329 00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:53,279 at the pentagon 330 00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:55,120 and you know as george said i think 331 00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:57,920 travis taylor started this whole thing 332 00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:01,200 extremely skeptical and then he's had so 333 00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:03,279 many personal experiences 334 00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:05,200 including personal experiences of the 335 00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:07,920 hitchhiker effect that you know 336 00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:09,760 the the skeptic 337 00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,800 has you know transformed into 338 00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:14,480 somebody who is 339 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:17,360 open much more open to the uh the broad 340 00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,200 spectrum of ufo effects so yeah i mean i 341 00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:22,959 i think the guy is 342 00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:25,200 um i i don't know him as well as george 343 00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:27,200 does but i've i've heard him by 344 00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,240 reputation for many many years 345 00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,800 george you mentioned travis taylor's cv 346 00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:34,560 and it's incredible you say five 347 00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:36,160 advanced degrees and there's a whole 348 00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:38,959 list of of other offshoots of jobs and 349 00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:41,519 roles and consultation roles he's done 350 00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:43,279 in different companies 351 00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:44,959 most of us don't have the luxury of 352 00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:46,720 knowing travis taylor 353 00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:49,920 personally what we see as a persona that 354 00:12:52,949 --> 00:12:52,320 is portrayed on tv which is obviously at 355 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:52,959 the 356 00:12:59,350 --> 00:12:57,120 mercy of editors and a time constraint 357 00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,360 some say that has lessened the impact 358 00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:01,440 his announcement has and and heading up 359 00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,160 that role given the the character almost 360 00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:06,160 of travis taylor we know from skinwalker 361 00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:10,079 ranch the tv show is that fair or what 362 00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,399 would you say to that 363 00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:14,480 i understand why those questions would 364 00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:16,639 be raised and travis knew they'd be 365 00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:18,800 raised as well but look what do you want 366 00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:21,760 in a ufo investigator his role on the tv 367 00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:24,800 show is the same as his role for the ufo 368 00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:27,200 task force it's to dig into this stuff 369 00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:29,279 study it and try to figure it out that's 370 00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:31,680 not a conflict they're the same thing 371 00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:35,200 the fact that he has a high a persona a 372 00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:37,760 high profile job on television it does 373 00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,480 complicate things but i saw this this 374 00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:42,800 ridiculous article in science 375 00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:46,079 magazine put out by keith klor 376 00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:48,959 how how in the world that magazine with 377 00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:51,680 its reputation publishes an article by a 378 00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:53,600 guy like him with his nefarious 379 00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:56,000 background and his personal history is 380 00:13:59,910 --> 00:13:58,160 beyond me i mean you couldn't publish a 381 00:14:02,310 --> 00:13:59,920 paper about skinwalker ranch in that 382 00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:02,320 magazine but you can publish an article 383 00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:04,800 that guts somebody like travis taylor a 384 00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:07,040 legitimate scientist who has an open 385 00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:09,519 mind and an insatiable curiosity 386 00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:11,920 and just it was it was terribly unfair 387 00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,959 there's no 388 00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,639 you know that article like all the 389 00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:16,560 debunker articles they all quote the 390 00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:18,320 same five people they all quote each 391 00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:20,480 other they interview each other as as 392 00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,360 experts all the same five debunkers all 393 00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:25,279 quote each other and repeat the same 394 00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:27,440 stuff no matter who comes forward this 395 00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:29,920 is a concerted effort to not only attack 396 00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:32,880 travis taylor but to attract anybody 397 00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:34,399 else who might come forward it's a 398 00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,160 warning if you're going to come if 399 00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:38,480 you're a scientist with advanced degrees 400 00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,639 and you take this stuff seriously and 401 00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,480 you make it public that you're willing 402 00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,720 to investigate it and take it seriously 403 00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,399 and follow the evidence where it leads 404 00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:48,079 you're going to get your ass kicked 405 00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:49,760 that's the message that was sent loud 406 00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,399 and clear it was incredibly unfair 407 00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:54,639 it was incredibly biased they quoted 408 00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,720 only their little buddies who have a 409 00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:58,399 debunker newsletter 410 00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:00,800 and uh it was it was ridiculous and it 411 00:15:06,629 --> 00:15:03,440 got repeated in multiple other media 412 00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:06,639 forums um with with very little scrutiny 413 00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:09,519 very little editorial insight it was it 414 00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,880 was uh 415 00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:12,560 i think it's it's representative of 416 00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:14,160 what's been going on with the topic for 417 00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,120 a long time you know the debunkers are 418 00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:19,600 so desperate now to hang on with their 419 00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:22,399 fingernails to the position that none of 420 00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:24,399 this is true and in light of the uap 421 00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:26,800 task force and their report and the 422 00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:28,160 congressional interest and the 423 00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:30,639 congressional hearings i think their 424 00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:33,360 desperation is has increased and anybody 425 00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,360 who comes forward to advance hey there's 426 00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:37,279 something interesting going on here gets 427 00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:39,199 attacked and the attacks have become 428 00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,360 much more personal in the last couple of 429 00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:43,519 months than we've seen for a long time 430 00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:45,920 i'm on the receiving end of it i i see 431 00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:48,399 it i know it comes with the territory 432 00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,160 now travis taylor sees it in the same 433 00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:52,560 thing and that and the fact that this is 434 00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:54,639 sent out as a warning shot to anybody 435 00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:56,079 else who might be studying this and 436 00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,480 taking it seriously that is the the 437 00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:00,240 message that needs to come across to the 438 00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:02,079 public is this is an attempt to 439 00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:03,279 intimidate 440 00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,000 and debunk uh prior to even seeing the 441 00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:08,560 information so i i have no problem with 442 00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,040 him wearing those two hats and the fact 443 00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,360 that the guy has written a bunch of uh 444 00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:16,399 sci-fi novels he has five degrees he's 445 00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:19,199 written 14 books he you know that that 446 00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:21,440 was also presented as well that's a 447 00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:23,600 disqualifier he's a true believer if he 448 00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:25,839 writes sci-fi novels it makes him a true 449 00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:27,519 believer that's not true 450 00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,759 if you know sci-fi writers are hostile 451 00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,920 to the ufo topic historically they're 452 00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:33,920 not they don't embrace it they hate it 453 00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:36,639 uh so you know the fact that he has that 454 00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:39,120 much time and energy and is interested 455 00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:41,279 in the big wide world around us those 456 00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:43,360 are all pluses as far as i'm concerned 457 00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:45,440 and i'm so glad that he 458 00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:47,279 had the courage to take on those jobs 459 00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:49,440 i'm so glad that he's sticking with it 460 00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:51,199 and i hope that other people who are out 461 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:52,880 there thinking of doing the same thing 462 00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,440 are not intimidated by these jerks who 463 00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,680 try to uh stop anyone from discussing 464 00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:00,079 the subjects 465 00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:02,240 col let me follow up something i i spoke 466 00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:04,000 to travis about if you don't mind just 467 00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,079 while i've got you travis discussed with 468 00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:08,400 myself how lowered brain activity 469 00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:10,240 through different medications or 470 00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:12,480 meditative states can help people 471 00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:14,240 experience events related to the 472 00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:17,360 phenomenon and on the other hand drugs 473 00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:20,400 or drugs like nicotine caffeine and such 474 00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:23,280 could hinder potential experiences 475 00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:25,280 is that something you studied during the 476 00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:28,720 osap days or were at least aware of 477 00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:31,360 yeah um so so what was the first drug 478 00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,640 you mentioned there 479 00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:35,039 um he mentioned nicotine caffeine being 480 00:17:39,029 --> 00:17:36,880 detrimental to those sorts of 481 00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,039 experiences 482 00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,280 well you know there's a there's a long 483 00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:44,080 history of um 484 00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:48,160 of the overlap between consciousness and 485 00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:51,039 and these kinds of of experiences 486 00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,480 um so 487 00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:54,000 you know i think probably what he's 488 00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,559 getting at is is that the 489 00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:58,080 you know all of these models of 490 00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,679 consciousness as they pertain to the 491 00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,360 brain 492 00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:03,840 are are increasingly getting 493 00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,240 more relevant as time goes on 494 00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:08,799 um especially you know the so-called 495 00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:11,039 hallucinogenics dmt 496 00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:12,960 uh which which is 497 00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,640 you know um 498 00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:16,640 one of the sort of uh 499 00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:18,960 tools being used in the toolbox now to 500 00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:21,520 explore consciousness and it's sort of 501 00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:24,080 uh getting more and more widespread so 502 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,120 yes i would agree that that you know 503 00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:30,000 mindset and anything that affects the 504 00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:32,480 the mindset anything that affects 505 00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:33,919 consciousness 506 00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:36,640 will definitely either open up or close 507 00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:37,520 down 508 00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:41,520 um receptivity um on skin marker ranch i 509 00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:44,080 personally when i was on the ranch i was 510 00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:46,720 always very conscious of making sure 511 00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:49,919 that i was on so-called even keel that 512 00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:52,559 was that i was not sort of all over the 513 00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:53,520 map 514 00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:57,679 in terms of emotions or feeling anger or 515 00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:00,640 any of that stuff i tried to maintain a 516 00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,679 sort of uh you know a psychological step 517 00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,000 stability while i was on the property 518 00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:08,640 and i did notice that people in my 519 00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:11,520 surroundings who tended to get angry 520 00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:14,400 tended to get explosively angry on the 521 00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,760 on the property at times so um there may 522 00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:19,919 be this connection um 523 00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:22,320 we you know there were some times when 524 00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:24,320 we brought on 525 00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:26,640 people for example 526 00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,200 remote viewers were were interacting 527 00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:31,280 with the property there were a couple of 528 00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:32,799 people who were brought onto the 529 00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:33,919 property 530 00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,400 who had psychic abilities 531 00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:38,880 all of these people reported you know 532 00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:41,760 pretty intense experiences there was one 533 00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:44,000 woman that was kind of uh famously 534 00:19:50,470 --> 00:19:46,799 brought on during the very early period 535 00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:50,480 when terry sherman slash gorman was uh 536 00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:51,679 you know 537 00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:58,000 she absolutely sort of fell apart when 538 00:20:01,510 --> 00:20:00,320 she was on the property and she started 539 00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:01,520 reporting 540 00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:04,240 all kinds of really bizarre 541 00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:06,720 entities that were in our surroundings 542 00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:08,159 and you know there's a there's a 543 00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:10,960 reflective aspect of this phenomenon 544 00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:13,120 that reflects right back at you what 545 00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:15,360 your mental state is and that's been 546 00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:17,120 very well documented throughout the 547 00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:20,240 decades so that aspect can be get can 548 00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,440 can get really amplified um 549 00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:26,080 but just um i wanted to go back to this 550 00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:28,720 whole science magazine thing with uh 551 00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:30,000 with 552 00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:32,559 um travis taylor because 553 00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:34,559 you know science magazine and nature 554 00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:38,799 magazine are the two uh most impactful 555 00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:41,039 science journals in the world if you go 556 00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:45,200 into a library in moscow you'll see a 557 00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,360 copy of nature and a copy of science 558 00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:49,840 magazine in the library if you go into 559 00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:51,919 and i personally experience this a 560 00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:54,880 library in this in rural france 561 00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:57,679 the two main magazines that you'll see 562 00:21:02,950 --> 00:21:00,240 and open are science magazine and nature 563 00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:02,960 magazine so um an article in science 564 00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:06,159 magazine is incredibly impactful 565 00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:09,440 incredibly sort of uh it is at the very 566 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:11,679 top tier of all science journals in the 567 00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:14,640 world so for for an article 568 00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,440 like what happened with travis taylor to 569 00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:19,600 go into science magazine 570 00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,200 is incredibly influential and incredibly 571 00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:25,520 impactful this is not something on 572 00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:28,480 twitter this is read by half a million 573 00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:31,919 to a million people who influence policy 574 00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:34,400 who are on top of policy and who 575 00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:37,360 translate science into policy so the the 576 00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,159 damage that that article did is 577 00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:43,200 incredibly important and um the fact 578 00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:46,240 that a guy like keith kluher could 579 00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:47,360 actually 580 00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:50,480 put an article into science magazine is 581 00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,400 a gigantic anomaly because normally the 582 00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:56,720 people who publish in science magazine 583 00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:58,640 are at the very top of their game 584 00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:01,120 they're like it's a level of prestige 585 00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:04,880 unlike any other in in terms of of of 586 00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:08,159 publications so a guy like keith plure 587 00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:11,679 publishing even a new section in science 588 00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:15,919 magazine should be extremely well vetted 589 00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:17,919 within 24 hours of the publication of 590 00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:20,720 that article it became pretty obvious 591 00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:24,640 that um keith clue had mistakenly 592 00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:27,200 got the quotation from the pentagon 593 00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,559 regarding travis taylor wrong i mean 594 00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:32,720 that that sort of ineptitude and that 595 00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:36,000 sort of complete lack of professionalism 596 00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:38,559 is a complete anomaly when it's when it 597 00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:41,120 comes you know to to publishing in 598 00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,559 science magazine 599 00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:44,799 it the whole thing is 600 00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:48,000 has got a very bad stench to it 601 00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:49,520 i was going to say so it sounds like you 602 00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:51,520 would both think that it 603 00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:53,200 it's deliberate that the article was 604 00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:55,200 placed there by someone deliberately and 605 00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:57,679 not just a case of you know accidentally 606 00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:00,240 bad vetting as you say 607 00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:02,080 oh i mean how do you how do you do 608 00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:04,559 something like that that guts somebody 609 00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,360 that cuts his legs off who has all those 610 00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:09,520 degrees who really is a scientist not a 611 00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,240 pretend scientist not a tv scientist 612 00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:13,919 he's worked for our pentagon since he 613 00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:15,840 was a teenager he has high level 614 00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:17,840 security clearances trusted by the us 615 00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:19,840 government by the us military with some 616 00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:22,480 of its most sensitive secrets to do good 617 00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:25,360 hard honest work uh for the us army and 618 00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:26,480 for nasa 619 00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:28,720 uh he's the real deal and to have him 620 00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,120 gutted by the likes of keith cloor 621 00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:33,200 without even a comment from him without 622 00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:35,679 any kind of a counter narrative at all 623 00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:39,440 no no no other counter opinion at all 624 00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:41,840 it's absolutely outrageous it's shameful 625 00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:44,960 i can't understand how it can happen 626 00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:46,880 well i'm sure dr taylor's work is going 627 00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:49,120 to speak for itself as we continue to go 628 00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:52,080 forward as has resumed us um let's move 629 00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:54,159 on to the next topic i want to discuss 630 00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,000 which is you brought up just before 631 00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:58,080 george the the hearings in the u.s 632 00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:00,880 congress now it's not lost on me this is 633 00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:03,919 the 75th anniversary of roswell roswell 634 00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:05,919 was mentioned in congress which was 635 00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:09,120 fascinating um was the the hearings 636 00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:11,520 which have been long called for by many 637 00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,000 on either of your radars particularly 638 00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,559 early or again was this something that 639 00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:18,240 came as a bit of a surprise to you as it 640 00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:22,870 well i'll start i i think you know it's 641 00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:25,039 the first public hearing before congress 642 00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:28,799 in 54 years so it is a landmark event 643 00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,279 it's a milestone it's a it's an 644 00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:33,440 indication of how far the subject matter 645 00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,320 has come in the last five years to be 646 00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:37,919 acceptable enough for members of 647 00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:40,240 congress to sit up there get a briefing 648 00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:42,559 and then ask questions of the us 649 00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:45,200 military officials and not fear being 650 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:47,840 ridiculed that's astonishing and it's a 651 00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:49,760 it's a major landmark just the fact that 652 00:24:53,830 --> 00:24:52,080 it happened then actually we get to what 653 00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:53,840 happened on the day of the hearing and 654 00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,679 that's where it becomes problematic i 655 00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,679 was encouraged that somebody finally 656 00:25:02,710 --> 00:24:59,279 came forward and told us how to 657 00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:02,720 pronounce aim sog the name of that that 658 00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:04,400 ridiculous um 659 00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:06,480 acronym for the new program i was 660 00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:07,760 encouraged that they said they're going 661 00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:09,120 to probably rename it when they got 662 00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:11,919 their new director on and that was about 663 00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:13,679 all that was encouraging the fact that 664 00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:16,000 they could not run uh the audio visual 665 00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:17,840 equipment and show us that little video 666 00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:20,720 clip uh was was problematic i was glad 667 00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:23,520 they tried uh but then then things went 668 00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:26,000 downhill from there in a big hurry 669 00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:28,720 the lack of historical context that 670 00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:31,200 these two guys had uh their lack of 671 00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:33,360 information they had no familiar 672 00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:35,440 familiarity with ufos appearing over 673 00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:37,760 nuclear missile installations that was 674 00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:39,039 like they looked at like they were 675 00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,880 making it up like there were deer in the 676 00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:42,640 headlights the fact they had no 677 00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:45,360 familiarity with the wilson davis memo 678 00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:47,520 uh that those were bad enough and then 679 00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:49,360 what they the sleight of hand trick that 680 00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:52,400 they pulled with the the uh drone video 681 00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:54,880 the the pyramid video that had been 682 00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:57,440 released by jeremy corbell and i uh a 683 00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:58,559 while back 684 00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,360 that was that was really the low point 685 00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:03,760 and it was sleight of hand you have bray 686 00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:06,000 from the navy saying well we had one of 687 00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:08,159 these things on the east coast and we 688 00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:10,480 think it's reflected reflected light 689 00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:13,120 inside an infrared device and therefore 690 00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:15,279 we've debunked all these videos on the 691 00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:17,360 west coast and we figured out there were 692 00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:19,200 drones and that was it they washed their 693 00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:21,440 hands it's drones that's it nobody asks 694 00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:23,919 a question like who's drones you know 695 00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:25,600 these drones there were more than 100 of 696 00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,000 them that buzzed 10 different navy ships 697 00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,000 in the course of a couple of days uh 698 00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:31,840 there were not only the pyramids or 699 00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:33,440 triangle videos 700 00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:35,520 that were seen over the uss russell but 701 00:26:40,470 --> 00:26:37,520 these spheres that were caught they were 702 00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:40,480 captured on video on sensors on radar 703 00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:42,320 that tracked the uss omaha there was 704 00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,559 more than a dozen of those that pestered 705 00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:46,640 the omaha for more than an hour the 706 00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:48,880 other ships in in that flotilla there 707 00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:51,120 they had the same kind of problems and 708 00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:52,880 this said ah that's drones the 709 00:26:57,269 --> 00:26:55,600 implication being it was the chinese 710 00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:57,279 hong kong registered ship that had 711 00:27:01,510 --> 00:26:59,120 released these drones no proof 712 00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:01,520 whatsoever in fact as we now know is 713 00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:03,520 completely contrary to the evidence 714 00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:05,760 that's been made public that ship was 715 00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:07,919 inspected the drones were still flying 716 00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,400 around while it was in port and then you 717 00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:12,159 know the basic questions as i mentioned 718 00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,000 whose drones are these that fly around 719 00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,320 with impunity over u.s navy ships they 720 00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:18,240 don't see where they came from they 721 00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,240 don't see where they went to they have 722 00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:22,320 no idea who launched them how they were 723 00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:23,520 able to stay 724 00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,320 in in the ocean a hundred miles off the 725 00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:28,559 coast flying around for hours over our 726 00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:30,799 ships with impunity 727 00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:32,799 nobody's curious about that the navy 728 00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:35,440 just completely washed that uh away 729 00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:37,039 congress didn't answer any questions 730 00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:39,679 about it and it's given new life to 731 00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:41,600 these debunkers who say yeah it's just 732 00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:43,760 drones no big deal as if you go buy 733 00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:45,440 these things at radio shack it's 734 00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,880 ridiculous 735 00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:48,399 it's not explained 736 00:27:52,549 --> 00:27:50,640 uh and if they were drones if they were 737 00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,559 drones that somehow show up in this 738 00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:54,240 infrared which i think we're going to 739 00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,799 find out that is that is not the case i 740 00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:58,240 think that we're going to have people 741 00:28:02,070 --> 00:27:59,279 that are going to come forward and 742 00:28:03,669 --> 00:28:02,080 confirm that what was seen is real um 743 00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:03,679 you know that's still a mystery that's 744 00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:04,960 still something we didn't know about 745 00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,360 it's a national security matter and 746 00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:09,520 it just was washed away like in in just 747 00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:11,919 a couple of seconds by a navy that said 748 00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:13,120 i don't know if you probably noticed 749 00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:15,840 that the special language they used andy 750 00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:18,320 um the congressmen asked them a question 751 00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:19,840 yeah well how do you determine that 752 00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:22,000 these these things are just drones 753 00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:23,600 and that's sort of bokeh effect or 754 00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:25,760 whatever not using that term and the guy 755 00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:27,919 said well studies have been done 756 00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,760 yeah studies have been done by who 757 00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:31,440 didn't say the navy did these studies 758 00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:33,200 because the navy didn't i'll just give 759 00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,440 you this one last thought on it the uap 760 00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,080 task force finished its work 761 00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:40,080 when it presented that report to 762 00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:41,279 congress 763 00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:45,360 that was it 144 cases 143 of them are 764 00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:48,159 unknowns that they were done the guy 765 00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:49,919 we're talking about j stratton he'd been 766 00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:52,320 removed in early 2021 took him out of 767 00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,720 the mix they had to produce that report 768 00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:56,559 for congress in a matter of six months 769 00:29:01,590 --> 00:28:58,559 travis taylor helped write it and then 770 00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:01,600 their work was done suddenly aimsog is 771 00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:04,000 created by congress after that 772 00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:05,760 they're still not operational they're 773 00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:07,679 still hiring people right now their 774 00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:09,679 their new director is not even on the 775 00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,559 job yet who made the determination in 776 00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:14,320 between the uap task force when it's 777 00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,880 shut down and aim sog which still is not 778 00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:18,240 up and running who made the 779 00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:20,399 determination these were drones who did 780 00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:22,559 it i'd like to see that i'd like to see 781 00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,760 that report 782 00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,440 i think it's version 783 00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:26,960 very quick follow-up on that though 784 00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:28,960 george um let me play devil's advocate 785 00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,919 here 786 00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:31,840 i've always said the three videos that 787 00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,000 were released and the the sections of 788 00:29:38,789 --> 00:29:35,919 them that were released were 789 00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:38,799 boring and vague enough to be allowed to 790 00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:40,240 the public to see them we've heard of 791 00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:42,240 the context behind them and and what may 792 00:29:46,149 --> 00:29:43,840 or may not happen before and after the 793 00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:46,159 cameras you know what we see 794 00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,520 but 795 00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:49,200 is that what happened with the hearings 796 00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:50,799 we heard what we were allowed to hear 797 00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:53,279 and then we had a classified portion did 798 00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:55,120 you ever get wind of anything within 799 00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:57,039 that classified section 800 00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:59,039 being any more interesting even the the 801 00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:01,520 task force report we got that redacted 802 00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:04,399 page which had the shape of uap 803 00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,600 again 804 00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:07,360 fully with that fully redacted it was a 805 00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:09,520 full page of adaptions except the 806 00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:11,840 headline things like that only fuel the 807 00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:14,640 fire of debunkers and those who want to 808 00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,470 well i i don't i don't have any direct 809 00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:22,159 information about what the congressional 810 00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:23,840 committee was told behind closed doors i 811 00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:25,360 wish i knew maybe 812 00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:26,640 maybe column knows a little bit more 813 00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:28,559 about that 814 00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:31,600 well i i do know that all of the all of 815 00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,640 the 816 00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:34,880 videos that have been released 817 00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,640 and all of the data that has been 818 00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,000 released 819 00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:40,880 is backed up by an awful lot more than 820 00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:42,799 what the public sees 821 00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:44,799 and you know the fact that the public 822 00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,840 only sees a very narrow rifle shot plays 823 00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:49,679 right into the hands of the debunkers 824 00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:52,799 who say okay well i mean the gimbal 825 00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:55,600 video is just a reflection 826 00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:57,919 um it's it's just a reflection for these 827 00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:00,399 reasons and and there's a whole body of 828 00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:04,080 data behind that um that is classified 829 00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:06,720 and so will never will not be released 830 00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:09,919 and so the the idea that this narrow 831 00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:13,600 narrow uh piece of data is picked apart 832 00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,640 endlessly on twitter is um gives the 833 00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:18,720 whole thing uh the iceberg the 834 00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:21,120 underneath of the iceberg behind it it 835 00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:23,679 you know it it's impossible to sort of 836 00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,720 refute 837 00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:26,880 um based on data because all of the data 838 00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:29,360 is classified so it's a real chicken and 839 00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:32,159 egg situation and i remember all the way 840 00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:36,159 back in in 2017 when the the first those 841 00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:38,480 first three videos were released 842 00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,120 um during the ttsa era and and when when 843 00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:45,600 um lou elizondo had just sort of quit 844 00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:48,240 his job and all of that and you know the 845 00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:51,279 level of frustration that i was hearing 846 00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,440 from behind the scenes 847 00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:55,039 because 848 00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:57,279 what was released was released in good 849 00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:00,000 faith those three videos but then you 850 00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:03,200 had uh these armies of people on social 851 00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:05,600 media who were looking at a very very 852 00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:08,159 small part of the data and tearing it 853 00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:11,519 apart based on almost no information i 854 00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:14,240 mean i heard it several times you know 855 00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,240 why did we go to the trouble of 856 00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:18,720 releasing these these videos i mean 857 00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:21,519 what's the point in actually releasing 858 00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:23,919 information to the public when all you 859 00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:28,399 get is sort of uninformed um sort of uh 860 00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:30,320 you know armchair theorists who are 861 00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:31,440 sitting there 862 00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:34,240 um debunking and sort of 863 00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,720 um trolling uh all of the information 864 00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:38,640 that comes out so i think that's a 865 00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:41,600 that's becoming a real problem um that 866 00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:44,399 there's a lot of classified data behind 867 00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:46,559 a lot of the a lot of the reports that 868 00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,039 have come out but that classified data 869 00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:51,840 is an awful lot more interesting than uh 870 00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:54,640 what the public sees but yet it's kind 871 00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,519 of like this um it's like a single 872 00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:59,760 versus noise thing where there's a 873 00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:01,919 tremendous amount of noise out there 874 00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:03,600 that's drowning out the signal 875 00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:06,240 completely and you know either by 876 00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:09,600 accident or by design i really feel 877 00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,559 sorry for people who are starting in on 878 00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,559 this whole thing and starting to learn 879 00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:17,279 about ufos because all they see 880 00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:19,840 is this wall of noise it's like radar 881 00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:22,320 chaff you know you can't get at the 882 00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:25,440 signal because there's so much noise 883 00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,440 travis taylor made this same point andy 884 00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:29,519 in our interview uh where he said you 885 00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:31,279 know he there's limits on what he can 886 00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:34,559 say about the 144 cases but he said you 887 00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:37,039 know no one in the world can look at 888 00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:38,720 just a little snippet of video and 889 00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:40,240 declare what it is 890 00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:41,840 we were able to determine these are 891 00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:44,240 genuine unknowns and are still genuine 892 00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:46,880 unknowns based on a lot more information 893 00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:48,960 as column just said radar and other 894 00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:50,799 sensors that told us these objects were 895 00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:53,200 real this is not a star that these 896 00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,600 people are seeing on the navy ship this 897 00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:57,440 is something that was 700 feet above the 898 00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:59,679 flight deck um you know the deck of the 899 00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:00,480 ship 900 00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:03,279 and uh there's so much more information 901 00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:06,720 unredacted uh statements from the crew 902 00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:07,919 and and 903 00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:09,839 you know other kinds of information that 904 00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:12,720 they can see that the public hasn't seen 905 00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,720 they made their determination based on a 906 00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:16,800 lot more information that we have seen 907 00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:17,679 and they 908 00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:20,720 both laugh and are aghast at what the 909 00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:23,200 debunkers do with this stuff to muddy 910 00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:26,720 the waters its birds its flares its jet 911 00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:28,399 engines they can throw out whatever they 912 00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:29,520 want 913 00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:30,560 often 914 00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:32,960 throw everything under the sun and see 915 00:34:37,349 --> 00:34:34,480 what sticks to the wall 916 00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:37,359 to just discredit it all and people like 917 00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:39,280 travis taylor and jay stratton are 918 00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:41,200 wondering what's the point of doing this 919 00:34:43,829 --> 00:34:42,800 at all what's the point of trying to do 920 00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:43,839 this work 921 00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:45,440 you have people like this who are trying 922 00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:48,000 their best to discourage the public from 923 00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:49,839 being interested to discourage 924 00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:52,000 scientists from coming forward and to 925 00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,000 discourage military witnesses from 926 00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:55,760 telling what they know it was already 927 00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:57,680 hard enough to get pilots to come in and 928 00:35:01,829 --> 00:34:59,680 say hey i encountered this thing on my 929 00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:01,839 flight from ocean on the east coast or 930 00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:04,160 the navy guys on the west coast nobody 931 00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:06,480 wants to say that stuff it's harder now 932 00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:09,200 because they worry what files will come 933 00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:11,680 forward will my name be attached am i 934 00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:13,760 going to be slimed as well it's a very 935 00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:16,240 real concern 936 00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:19,119 was there anything calm within the 937 00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:20,720 the hearings that 938 00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:23,040 gave you cause for hope 939 00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:24,400 george obviously sounded quite 940 00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:25,920 frustrated and disappointed at the 941 00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,680 content and i think that echoed quite a 942 00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:29,520 lot of people's sentiments to be honest 943 00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:31,040 was it the same for yourself or was 944 00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:32,800 there anything that you you can 945 00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:38,870 i found uh i found the hearings um 946 00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:41,040 extremely disappointing 947 00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,119 um i i felt that um the 948 00:35:49,829 --> 00:35:47,520 the the two people who were sort of 949 00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:49,839 paraded in front of the public 950 00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:53,280 um were really badly uh briefed 951 00:35:57,829 --> 00:35:56,000 um it was pretty obvious to me that um 952 00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:57,839 there i mean 953 00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:58,960 cases 954 00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:00,079 um 955 00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:02,320 that has now transitioned into many 956 00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:04,560 hundreds of cases with a lot of 957 00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:07,040 classified data there should have been 958 00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:09,839 an awful lot better preparation from 959 00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:12,240 these two individuals so to me it was an 960 00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:14,960 indication of um 961 00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:17,599 you know the sort of the mentality 962 00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,079 uh that unfortunately existed during 963 00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:22,560 project blue book and seems to have 964 00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:25,920 carried on with uh with this 965 00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:31,119 ousdi aoi msg organization um where 966 00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:33,920 where there is a tendency 967 00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:36,640 not to be uh fully engaged with this 968 00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:38,960 topic and try to avoid the topic if 969 00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:41,599 possible i mean there's two 800 pound 970 00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:44,000 gorillas in the room here number one is 971 00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:46,320 the united states air force and the 972 00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:50,560 number two is the uh ousdi the office of 973 00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:52,880 this of the under secretary of defense 974 00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:55,119 for intelligence um 975 00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:58,640 so both of these uh organizations have a 976 00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:02,160 long history that goes back decades who 977 00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:05,839 um with respect to a lot of hostility um 978 00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,640 in the topic and so those two 979 00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:10,720 organizations control a lot of the 980 00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:13,119 information that the public will ever 981 00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:15,599 see and the united states air force 982 00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:19,440 continually has avoided and trivialized 983 00:37:23,750 --> 00:37:21,440 all of the data that that it has 984 00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:23,760 accumulated over the years and i mean it 985 00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:26,400 was legendary during project blue book 986 00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:27,920 what the united states air force were 987 00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:30,400 doing and the secretary of the air force 988 00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:32,720 a guy called frank kendall came out a 989 00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,680 few months ago and unambiguously said 990 00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:37,280 look as far as we're concerned there's 991 00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:40,000 no there there and so until we see it 992 00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:41,440 they're they're we're not going to put 993 00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:43,680 the resources into it so again it's a 994 00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:46,240 chicken and an egg situation the only 995 00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:49,280 bright spark that i saw uh in the in the 996 00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:52,079 congressional hearings was actually the 997 00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:54,640 uh how well briefed the con the congress 998 00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,200 people were um they were much much 999 00:38:01,589 --> 00:37:59,440 better than um the two 1000 00:38:03,190 --> 00:38:01,599 uh the two guys from the pentagon who 1001 00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:03,200 were paraded out 1002 00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:04,720 the people 1003 00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:07,119 from congress were obviously very well 1004 00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:08,560 briefed 1005 00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:11,119 and so a lot of the questions that got 1006 00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:14,400 written into the record official record 1007 00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:17,200 uh during those hearings will be there 1008 00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:19,920 festering you know like a you know like 1009 00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:22,960 an online spoil ready to be 1010 00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,599 ready to be exploded and there i mean 1011 00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:27,520 it's kind of like landmines waiting to 1012 00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:31,359 be uh to be trodden on because they're 1013 00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:33,760 in the official record and they will 1014 00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:36,720 eventually be addressed so that was the 1015 00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:39,520 i guess the brightest part of it for me 1016 00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,320 was 1017 00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:42,960 that the congress people who were way 1018 00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:45,280 way more proactive and way more 1019 00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:47,280 knowledgeable and assuming the staffers 1020 00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:49,359 are really the knowledgeable people um 1021 00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:51,040 they're obviously pretty engaged with 1022 00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:53,359 the topic and also pretty engaged with 1023 00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:56,000 the the community 1024 00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:58,079 representative mike gallagher was one of 1025 00:39:02,710 --> 00:39:00,480 those who impressed many people and what 1026 00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:02,720 stood out to me was he has age on his 1027 00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:04,400 side as well compared to a lot of his 1028 00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:06,560 colleagues and i wonder george i'll put 1029 00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:09,040 this one to you do you think that 1030 00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,200 this is something that younger elected 1031 00:39:16,870 --> 00:39:13,520 officials as a conversation are more 1032 00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:18,790 i don't know i mean he's an example that 1033 00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:21,440 would prove the point i guess that guy 1034 00:39:24,870 --> 00:39:23,200 he's clearly done some homework 1035 00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:24,880 somebody's briefed him or he's done the 1036 00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:25,839 reading 1037 00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:28,079 there's another guy tim burchette who's 1038 00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:30,400 not part of that that hearing not part 1039 00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:33,200 of that panel who also expressed very 1040 00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:36,000 strong opinions i think his exact quote 1041 00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:38,320 was about the hearing we got hosed was 1042 00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:40,320 what he said meaning we the american 1043 00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:42,480 public the world public got hosed by 1044 00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,079 that because there's a lot better 1045 00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:46,320 evidence there's a lot more information 1046 00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:48,160 there are far better witnesses than the 1047 00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:50,079 two guys that appeared there in that day 1048 00:39:53,910 --> 00:39:52,240 but those guys like that 1049 00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:53,920 who've clearly sunk their teeth into 1050 00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:56,079 this topic that's the only hope that we 1051 00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:57,839 have a lot of the other folks who are 1052 00:40:02,150 --> 00:39:59,839 willing to seem to be willing to play 1053 00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:02,160 ball and and accept whatever the the 1054 00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:04,319 witness has told them uh 1055 00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,920 you know i i hope that that is not the 1056 00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:07,680 case i hope this was a not just a 1057 00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:10,000 one-off i hope that these guys will 1058 00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:11,760 follow up on their promises that hey we 1059 00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:13,359 want this answered we want to know about 1060 00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:15,280 the wilson davis document we want to 1061 00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:18,079 know about ufos over malmstrom get back 1062 00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:19,599 to us on it it'll be really interesting 1063 00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:21,280 to see what kind of responses those guys 1064 00:40:24,309 --> 00:40:22,640 give them 1065 00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:24,319 what do you think the chances are george 1066 00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:27,040 that we get another set of hearings 1067 00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:29,200 to follow this up 1068 00:40:32,309 --> 00:40:30,640 i think it'd be pretty good i mean i 1069 00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,319 think those the congressmen who 1070 00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:34,240 participated got a lot of attention a 1071 00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:36,640 lot of public attention positive public 1072 00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:39,040 attention and i think that they have 1073 00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:41,119 recognized that this is not a dead end 1074 00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,280 that it's not a the third rail that you 1075 00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:45,599 can go ahead and talk about ufos and it 1076 00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:47,760 could be a positive for their public uh 1077 00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:50,319 images and persona so i hope that that 1078 00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:52,880 is that is what is conveyed to them and 1079 00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:54,880 i hope that they will uh push that 1080 00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:57,359 chairman for for more hearings i suspect 1081 00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,200 that that is going to be the case but i 1082 00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,800 haven't heard any dates for future 1083 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,400 hearings haven't heard any dates that 1084 00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,640 might be in the future 1085 00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:06,240 coleman if you are part of those 1086 00:41:10,390 --> 00:41:08,000 hearings or at least trying to make up a 1087 00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:10,400 manifesto of what should be discussed 1088 00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:11,920 what are some of the two or three main 1089 00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,079 topics or or questions you would like to 1090 00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:16,960 hear answered as part of those hearings 1091 00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:18,800 well one of the first things i would 1092 00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:21,359 want to know is exactly how much money 1093 00:41:26,230 --> 00:41:24,480 is being allocated to this program and 1094 00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:26,240 and to who 1095 00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:27,280 uh and 1096 00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:29,440 exactly how many people are going to be 1097 00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:33,440 hired uh and and so we right now we have 1098 00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,040 almost no uh information on how many 1099 00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,599 uh how many ftes are going to be hired 1100 00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:41,440 for this this program 1101 00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,680 the department of defense has this nasty 1102 00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:45,920 habit of uh 1103 00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:48,560 you know retasking people without 1104 00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,240 actually forming official what are 1105 00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:52,880 called billets and once once you form an 1106 00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:56,319 official billet you have a full-time fte 1107 00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:58,400 so that means that that person is 1108 00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:01,599 dedicated to this set of tasks that are 1109 00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:04,240 funded but if if you actually just say 1110 00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:06,960 okay let's draft in a few people who are 1111 00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:09,440 already are have billets 1112 00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:12,319 they already have full-time jobs so you 1113 00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:13,680 know you're really sort of bringing 1114 00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:16,240 people in who are not full-time who are 1115 00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,800 doing things on almost their own time i 1116 00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,560 mean this is this is really what 1117 00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,560 happened with atip all the way back in 1118 00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:24,720 uh in you know 1119 00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:27,040 12 years ago or whatever i mean there 1120 00:42:30,550 --> 00:42:29,280 were really no full-time people that 1121 00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:30,560 were dedicated 1122 00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:33,359 uh on a day-to-day basis and the only 1123 00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:35,920 way of addressing this problem is to 1124 00:42:41,109 --> 00:42:38,319 have full-time people i mean right now 1125 00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:41,119 the uh the head of the uh 1126 00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:43,440 what what used to be the task force 1127 00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:45,119 um you know i mean this guy is a 1128 00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:48,240 part-time guy um after the guy after jay 1129 00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:51,760 stratton a part-time guy who was already 1130 00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:54,480 fully tasked and suddenly he was said he 1131 00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:56,720 was given the the task of you know the 1132 00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:00,560 uap task force so unless you have um a 1133 00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:02,640 good tranche of funding 1134 00:43:08,550 --> 00:43:06,160 that is absolutely traceable in terms of 1135 00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:08,560 creating extra billets 1136 00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,440 to to engage with this you're always 1137 00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:13,440 going to have a bunch of people who are 1138 00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,319 over tasked and are doing this 1139 00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:18,480 practically on their own time and that 1140 00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,240 is really no way to run a program 1141 00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:22,480 because that's exactly how project blue 1142 00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:23,680 book was run 1143 00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:26,160 from the air force nobody was like 1144 00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:29,599 full-time doing this day day by day the 1145 00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:32,160 contrast to that was awesome i mean well 1146 00:43:37,829 --> 00:43:34,800 i'm not trying to tutor on horn here but 1147 00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:37,839 there was 50 people on asap who were 1148 00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:41,680 fully tasked tasked 40 hours a week 1149 00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,119 12 months per year on doing nothing else 1150 00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:47,680 that was they had no other tasks except 1151 00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,280 focus on this program and you know until 1152 00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,119 aoi msg 1153 00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:56,160 actually gets full-time billets you know 1154 00:44:01,510 --> 00:43:58,800 and and until we know what kind of level 1155 00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:01,520 of funding they have access to um you 1156 00:44:07,349 --> 00:44:04,319 know i think it's all smoke and mirrors 1157 00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:07,359 and you can make a a part-time sort of 1158 00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,599 job that you're doing on your own time 1159 00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:11,280 you know make it into something that 1160 00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:14,400 it's not hyperinflate and exaggerate 1161 00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,720 what this program is actually doing when 1162 00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:18,000 all you have you know you've got a 1163 00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:19,520 couple of people working a couple of 1164 00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:21,920 hours a week on the program it's not 1165 00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:24,160 going to achieve anything unless it's 1166 00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:26,960 fully funded and right now we we have no 1167 00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:29,440 real information of the extent of 1168 00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:30,400 funding 1169 00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:32,560 i think what they count on andy is 1170 00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:35,040 congress will move on to something else 1171 00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:36,800 there's always you know there was a 1172 00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:40,000 shooting here in the in the u.s at a 1173 00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:42,240 fourth of july parade today six people 1174 00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,920 gunned down um 1175 00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:45,280 that's not a 1176 00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:47,680 yearly or a monthly event or a weekly 1177 00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:50,160 event in the u.s that's daily it happens 1178 00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:52,880 every day you know that the issues over 1179 00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:55,760 the us supreme court and abortion have 1180 00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,560 have washington in an uproar um there's 1181 00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,480 always something new the war with 1182 00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:02,640 ukraine and its effect on gasoline 1183 00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:04,720 prices in this country there's always 1184 00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:07,040 some other issue that's more pressing 1185 00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:09,599 than ufos and i think the pentagon 1186 00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:11,839 people who are hostile to the topic are 1187 00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:13,359 counting on that that members of 1188 00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:15,440 congress who ask really good questions 1189 00:45:18,790 --> 00:45:17,359 at this first hearing will move on to 1190 00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:18,800 something else and then they can do what 1191 00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:20,800 they've always done which is to shove 1192 00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:23,359 this in a drawer and get rid of it 1193 00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:26,720 you know ousdi is hostile to the topic 1194 00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:29,440 air force is hostile to it if they are 1195 00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:31,520 going to have a program involving those 1196 00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:33,920 two entities and we don't know what the 1197 00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:35,520 budget is we don't know how many people 1198 00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:37,920 are going to work at it full time 1199 00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:39,920 we do know that the jobs that have been 1200 00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:42,240 advertised to work for the the new 1201 00:45:46,309 --> 00:45:44,640 organization are two-year jobs 1202 00:45:48,550 --> 00:45:46,319 i think they probably are counting on 1203 00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:48,560 this being a two-year thing and then 1204 00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:50,560 they issue a report 1205 00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,640 it's all solved all taken care of 1206 00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:54,319 there's nothing else to find here move 1207 00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:56,400 along i think that's what the plan is 1208 00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:58,319 i'd be very surprised if it goes in some 1209 00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:00,240 other direction 1210 00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:02,319 i think that segues nicely then on to 1211 00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,079 the the brazilian hearings that happened 1212 00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:06,319 recently because we rely so much on the 1213 00:46:11,990 --> 00:46:09,440 united states to to drive forward this 1214 00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:12,000 ufo conversation and here's myself 1215 00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:14,240 sitting you know in the uk which does 1216 00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:16,640 little to nothing to move and progress 1217 00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,440 the ufo conversation currently so brazil 1218 00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:21,040 had a set of what was essentially 1219 00:46:26,309 --> 00:46:23,440 citizen hearings with scientists and 1220 00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:26,319 journalists and others presenting um 1221 00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:28,000 what were your thoughts on the brazilian 1222 00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:30,640 hearings george and was it 1223 00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:33,440 was as impactful as it could have been 1224 00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:35,200 i have to admit to you i have seen very 1225 00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:37,040 little of it i i didn't have a day that 1226 00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:38,319 i could sit down and watch that whole 1227 00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:40,800 thing i'm encouraged by it uh that there 1228 00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:43,200 is at least a patina of official 1229 00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:45,680 government involvement uh in the process 1230 00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,000 uh you know we've often wondered well if 1231 00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:49,839 the us is not going to come clean on 1232 00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:51,760 this if the american government the 1233 00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,760 pentagon is not going to come clean and 1234 00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:55,920 and tell what they know might another 1235 00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:57,920 government around the world go ahead and 1236 00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:00,240 spill the beans come close to what we'd 1237 00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:02,960 call capital d disclosure the brazilians 1238 00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:05,200 are a candidate to do that to do that 1239 00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:08,240 column and uh both the asap program and 1240 00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:10,720 i think nids as well they interacted 1241 00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:12,400 with the brazilians with the brazilian 1242 00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:14,400 air force it was a big component about 1243 00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,920 what we described in the book the 1244 00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:17,520 skinwalkers at the pentagon they went 1245 00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:19,520 down there a couple of times interacted 1246 00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,200 with the brazilian air force and brought 1247 00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:23,040 back a ton of files that went into the 1248 00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:25,920 database that was created by asap those 1249 00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:28,480 guys seem very open to working with 1250 00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:30,880 americans with being out in out in the 1251 00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:32,400 open on what they know 1252 00:47:35,829 --> 00:47:34,319 and i'm encouraged by it you know i 1253 00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:35,839 haven't seen the whole 1254 00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:37,359 brazilian hearing but 1255 00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:39,200 the more openness the more information 1256 00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:41,119 the better 1257 00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:42,960 column let me ask is someone who's had 1258 00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:43,760 that 1259 00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:46,000 experience with other governments and 1260 00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:48,400 how they handle this subject 1261 00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:51,280 why does it seem that the us is the 1262 00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:53,839 gatekeeper of this huge secret and that 1263 00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:55,440 they have all the crashed craft and 1264 00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:56,960 they've got all the materials and the 1265 00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:58,960 bodies and you know it's i'm using some 1266 00:48:02,069 --> 00:48:00,160 hyperbole i'm not saying they 1267 00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:02,079 necessarily do but many would say they 1268 00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:02,800 do 1269 00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:05,200 why hasn't another country came out and 1270 00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:07,599 said we have this crash saucer or we 1271 00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:09,440 have found this material you know why 1272 00:48:13,190 --> 00:48:10,800 hasn't someone else just led that 1273 00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:13,200 conversation 1274 00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:16,240 well i think for better for worse the um 1275 00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:19,359 you know since 1947 when 1276 00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:22,400 um you know that the sort of the public 1277 00:48:26,790 --> 00:48:24,400 awareness of this whole phenomenon 1278 00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:26,800 escalated dramatically we're now as 1279 00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,400 george said we're in the 75th 1280 00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:30,960 anniversary uh kenneth arnold we just 1281 00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:32,880 passed the kenneth arnold sighting we're 1282 00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:34,960 going through the the 75th anniversary 1283 00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:37,200 of the roswell sighting so for better or 1284 00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:39,440 for worse the united states 1285 00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:43,040 approach to the uh to the ufo topic has 1286 00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:45,200 always sort of it has always been a 1287 00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:48,960 leadership role um and and you know 1288 00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:51,359 as we investigated the 1289 00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:53,119 operation prato 1290 00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:55,920 our our operation plate at the uh the 1291 00:49:02,870 --> 00:48:59,520 brazilian uh kolaris events uh as part 1292 00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:02,880 of the ba the assad pass program um we 1293 00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:05,920 we ran into this whole thing where um 1294 00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:08,400 there were a lot of files 1295 00:49:13,030 --> 00:49:12,079 um associated with uh the brazilian air 1296 00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,040 force 1297 00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:15,440 that were gradually being released over 1298 00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:17,359 time and actually 1299 00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:20,240 we interacted very closely with general 1300 00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:23,839 uchoa who um at the time 1301 00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,160 he's since retired but at the time he 1302 00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:28,880 was the brazilian equivalent of the head 1303 00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:30,960 of the department of homeland security 1304 00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:32,800 so he was very much 1305 00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:35,680 involved in sort of um 1306 00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:38,240 keeping an eye on what was what was 1307 00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:40,720 being released what kind of information 1308 00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:41,440 that 1309 00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,280 up the the operation plate was uh had 1310 00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:47,200 and what kind of documents were were 1311 00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:50,400 available so the asap teams down in 1312 00:49:55,990 --> 00:49:54,079 brazil interacted with general uchoa we 1313 00:49:58,950 --> 00:49:56,000 interacted with general uchoa in 1314 00:50:02,230 --> 00:49:58,960 separate meetings in washington dc 1315 00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:02,240 um so um the upshot of that was that 1316 00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:06,240 there was a release of documents um 1317 00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:09,040 you know 10 11 12 years ago 1318 00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:10,960 as a result of these overtures but 1319 00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:13,280 there's an awful lot more that's uh 1320 00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:15,200 that's been kept hidden and there's 1321 00:50:20,790 --> 00:50:17,920 always been whispers that there is an 1322 00:50:23,510 --> 00:50:20,800 american hand in the uh in this whole 1323 00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:23,520 process and that there is a 1324 00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:25,440 um a leadership role that the united 1325 00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:28,800 states government always has had um in 1326 00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:31,680 terms of dictating to the western world 1327 00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:33,040 at least 1328 00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:33,839 where 1329 00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:39,359 um you know what could be released i 1330 00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:41,359 don't know what the situation in russia 1331 00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:44,480 or china is right now um i i do know 1332 00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:46,640 that there was a lot of george has a lot 1333 00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,319 of background with 1334 00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:50,319 what was happening in russia 1335 00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:52,960 there are uh occasional reports that 1336 00:51:00,069 --> 00:50:56,960 we're seeing from china in in terms of 1337 00:51:02,150 --> 00:51:00,079 you know the full-blown ufo activity and 1338 00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:02,160 potential potential 1339 00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:05,040 access to technology um you know and 1340 00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:06,800 obviously behind the scenes there's a 1341 00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:08,480 cold war going on 1342 00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:10,319 in terms of what kind of technology the 1343 00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:13,119 united states has sequestered and the 1344 00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,400 last thing they want to do is to have 1345 00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:18,400 you know reverse engineering teams from 1346 00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:20,800 china or russia 1347 00:51:26,230 --> 00:51:23,200 you know availing of technology that the 1348 00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:26,240 united states has in its possession so 1349 00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:28,160 it's a very complex 1350 00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:30,000 um you know 1351 00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,480 house of cards but you know for better 1352 00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:34,319 or for worse the united states i think 1353 00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:37,280 has been in the leadership role on this 1354 00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:40,640 for decades and you know i don't know if 1355 00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:42,400 it's possible for another country to 1356 00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:44,880 take the lead 1357 00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:45,760 george 1358 00:51:49,589 --> 00:51:47,839 cole mentions yourself and you're 1359 00:51:50,470 --> 00:51:49,599 reporting on russia and that sort of 1360 00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,480 knowledge 1361 00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:52,480 some would say that russia's performance 1362 00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:54,880 in ukraine currently would back up the 1363 00:51:58,549 --> 00:51:56,559 idea that technology is maybe not as 1364 00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:58,559 advanced as we would expect because 1365 00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:00,319 they're they've really struggled to you 1366 00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:02,400 know even cross it seems like roads at 1367 00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,520 times with the kind of mud and terrain 1368 00:52:09,990 --> 00:52:07,200 is that too simplistic and argumental 1369 00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:10,000 when it comes to uap technology that 1370 00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:11,599 well the russians don't have it because 1371 00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:13,680 they would use something akin to a 1372 00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:15,520 better technology than than what they're 1373 00:52:20,309 --> 00:52:18,079 using in ukraine 1374 00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,319 there's a friend of ours a mutual friend 1375 00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:22,079 that column and i have he has a saying 1376 00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:23,760 when he talks about russia you know he 1377 00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:25,520 was asked well could these things that 1378 00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:27,280 we're seeing off the west coast are they 1379 00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:28,720 russian drones 1380 00:52:32,230 --> 00:52:30,400 his response was 1381 00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:32,240 russia is like a gas station with 1382 00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:34,240 nuclear weapons you know they're they 1383 00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:36,640 can't build a decent car let alone these 1384 00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:38,960 advanced anti-gravity devices like the 1385 00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:40,960 gimbal or the tic tac so they're not 1386 00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:42,640 they don't think that these the russians 1387 00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:44,079 are building these things but the 1388 00:52:47,589 --> 00:52:46,000 russians can build nuclear weapons and 1389 00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:47,599 hypersonic missiles and things of that 1390 00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:49,760 sort some things they're pretty good at 1391 00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:52,079 uh the logistics of of what their 1392 00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:54,079 military technology is versus what they 1393 00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:56,559 can get into the battlefield we've shown 1394 00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,559 it it's been shown in ukraine that 1395 00:53:02,150 --> 00:53:00,400 there's a big gap there and what that 1396 00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:02,160 they want to do and what they're capable 1397 00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:04,720 of doing um look we we've all heard the 1398 00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:06,880 stories about the the united states is 1399 00:53:11,589 --> 00:53:08,720 not the only government that has crashed 1400 00:53:13,589 --> 00:53:11,599 saucers or recovered technology or meta 1401 00:53:15,670 --> 00:53:13,599 materials there are a lot of hints that 1402 00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:15,680 i heard in in russia during my two 1403 00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:17,680 visits there that was back in the 90s 1404 00:53:22,230 --> 00:53:20,160 that there are places these institutes 1405 00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,240 these cities that don't exist on a map 1406 00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:24,079 where this material has been taken to be 1407 00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:25,119 studied 1408 00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:27,119 you've seen some provocative incidents 1409 00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:29,440 uh involving russia where their their 1410 00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:31,359 warplanes will buzz our ships where they 1411 00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:33,599 come way over the line way too close to 1412 00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,160 the us military provocative instances 1413 00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:38,319 where they seem to be begging to go 1414 00:53:42,390 --> 00:53:39,520 ahead and unleash some kind of 1415 00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:42,400 technology i think they've got something 1416 00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,800 i think they've got a weapon system that 1417 00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:46,720 they've developed based on something 1418 00:53:51,030 --> 00:53:48,800 they've recovered from somewhere else 1419 00:53:53,349 --> 00:53:51,040 not a full-blown anti-gravity flying 1420 00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:53,359 machine but some kind of a weapon and i 1421 00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:54,960 think we're trying to work on a similar 1422 00:53:57,750 --> 00:53:55,920 weapon 1423 00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:57,760 i you know we hear stories about that 1424 00:54:02,549 --> 00:54:00,880 from china uh i'm i'm less uh definitive 1425 00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:02,559 about that but i think the russians do 1426 00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:04,160 have some of this stuff they've had it 1427 00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,680 for a long time like us they've been 1428 00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:07,520 trying to reverse engineer it and like 1429 00:54:10,870 --> 00:54:09,280 us they haven't had much much luck with 1430 00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:10,880 it in figuring it out 1431 00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:13,040 i don't sell the russians short 1432 00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:14,960 they're incredibly destructive when they 1433 00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:17,119 want to be 1434 00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:20,319 cool i'd also add that the um you know 1435 00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:22,640 that just following on what george said 1436 00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:25,200 i mean those documents that george 1437 00:54:31,109 --> 00:54:28,000 brought back from russia from the 1438 00:54:34,549 --> 00:54:31,119 the very early 90s you know just during 1439 00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:34,559 the perestroika era um you know one of 1440 00:54:40,789 --> 00:54:37,920 the pro the projects that us abbas had 1441 00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:40,799 was in sort of putting analysts and 1442 00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:43,599 translators on those documents and you 1443 00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:45,920 know what what really became obvious 1444 00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:48,400 during that analysis was there was an 1445 00:54:51,950 --> 00:54:50,799 organization called 1446 00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:51,960 unit 1447 00:54:58,190 --> 00:54:55,680 73790 which was buried in multiple 1448 00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:58,200 different aspects of a very 1449 00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:01,359 sophisticated organizational chart uh 1450 00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:03,280 through throughout the soviet the then 1451 00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:06,400 soviet union that that encompassed both 1452 00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:09,359 government private sector and all of 1453 00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:11,440 academia you know there were uh there 1454 00:55:17,510 --> 00:55:13,760 was over a dozen organizations involved 1455 00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:17,520 in this gigantic ufo program and buried 1456 00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:19,760 in the middle of this as a sort of uh 1457 00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:22,960 you know as a low-key orchestrator was 1458 00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,440 this unit 73790 1459 00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:27,599 and this was like all the way back 30 1460 00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:30,480 years ago so when senator reid was sort 1461 00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:31,920 of first 1462 00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:34,400 becoming more and more alarmed 1463 00:55:39,430 --> 00:55:36,240 about the possibility that the united 1464 00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:39,440 states may fall behind the the 1465 00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,160 either russia or china in this kind of 1466 00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:44,960 uh ufo sort of behind the scenes uh 1467 00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:48,400 reverse engineering program i mean he he 1468 00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:51,599 had actual sort of genuine concern that 1469 00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:53,760 this could happen and you know when this 1470 00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:56,160 report uh when the analysis 1471 00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:58,160 uh that that sort of put the finger on 1472 00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:00,720 this unit 73790 1473 00:56:06,069 --> 00:56:03,680 came out i mean it was obvious you know 1474 00:56:09,109 --> 00:56:06,079 from the reactions that you know there's 1475 00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:09,119 a lot of concern in the united states 1476 00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:10,559 about what the 1477 00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,440 capabilities were 30 years ago 1478 00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:16,000 in terms of what russia had and fast 1479 00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:18,160 forward that all the way through 1480 00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:20,720 um to where we are now so you know there 1481 00:56:26,309 --> 00:56:23,760 could well be technology behind the 1482 00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:26,319 scenes that uh that you know the united 1483 00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,799 states is very concerned about but you 1484 00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:30,559 know 30 years ago 1485 00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:33,599 um that asap report uh showed 1486 00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:35,040 unequivocally 1487 00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:36,079 that the 1488 00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:39,200 uh then soviet union transferring into 1489 00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:43,200 russia had a very sophisticated 1490 00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:45,839 well sort of organized 1491 00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:48,480 program that dwarfed anything that the 1492 00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:51,280 united states had at the time 1493 00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:53,920 and all the way back in 1990 i mean 1494 00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:56,160 there was really nothing was a couple of 1495 00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:58,480 unofficial programs going on behind the 1496 00:57:02,789 --> 00:57:00,480 scenes but there was nothing on the 1497 00:57:05,430 --> 00:57:02,799 scale that the soviet union had 1498 00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:05,440 i'll add this andy uh one of the inter 1499 00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:07,359 the people we interviewed in russia the 1500 00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:09,920 first trip i was there in 93 was a 1501 00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:11,920 russian scientist who worked on their 1502 00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:13,359 the equivalent of their star wars 1503 00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:15,520 program he had never spoken to a 1504 00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:17,359 journalist not just a rut not an 1505 00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:19,200 american journalist certainly but he 1506 00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:20,319 hadn't even spoken to a russian 1507 00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:22,400 journalist he hadn't used his real name 1508 00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:24,720 in public and he came forward it was the 1509 00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:26,000 time when there was a window of 1510 00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:28,000 opportunity there and spoke to us he 1511 00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:30,480 said yeah we he showed me he had this 1512 00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:32,240 funny little thing sitting on the table 1513 00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:33,599 when we came into the room where we 1514 00:57:37,990 --> 00:57:35,599 interviewed him and he had been living 1515 00:57:40,150 --> 00:57:38,000 in one of these star cities places that 1516 00:57:42,710 --> 00:57:40,160 didn't exist on a map for his whole 1517 00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:42,720 career working on advanced weapons 1518 00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:44,240 weapon systems and he showed me this 1519 00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:45,839 little tabletop thing he called it the 1520 00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:48,079 weapon of the aliens and he pressed a 1521 00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:50,640 button and this beam 1522 00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:53,440 burned a hole instantaneously in a razor 1523 00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:54,480 blade 1524 00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:56,400 he said this is what we're working on we 1525 00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:57,760 want to be able to develop this 1526 00:58:01,670 --> 00:57:59,599 technology what we call the weapon of 1527 00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:01,680 the aliens we know that the americans 1528 00:58:05,349 --> 00:58:03,520 are working on it as well we want to 1529 00:58:07,589 --> 00:58:05,359 beat you to the punch 1530 00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:07,599 this is also goes to the heart of why 1531 00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:09,680 i'm i'm not encouraged that we're going 1532 00:58:13,589 --> 00:58:11,680 to get anything like disclosure anytime 1533 00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:13,599 soon is because there's a race 1534 00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:15,520 for this technology we're trying to 1535 00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:17,280 figure it out the russians the chinese 1536 00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:19,680 are trying to figure it out how far each 1537 00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:21,359 of those nations have gone we don't know 1538 00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:23,280 but we're never going to release this 1539 00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:24,880 information because we don't want them 1540 00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:27,119 to know how far along we are it is 1541 00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:28,640 always going to be a matter of national 1542 00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:30,799 security and i think that you'll have 1543 00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:32,880 people the organizations like the u.s 1544 00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:36,480 air force and ousdi that will never come 1545 00:58:40,150 --> 00:58:38,880 forward and tell us what we want to know 1546 00:58:42,230 --> 00:58:40,160 because of the national security 1547 00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:42,240 implications 1548 00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:44,720 well one organization that um for many 1549 00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:46,640 many years and decades has seemed to be 1550 00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:49,200 behind the times on the subject but only 1551 00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:51,040 in the last couple of months usually can 1552 00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:53,920 i come back to the forefront as nasa and 1553 00:58:58,150 --> 00:58:56,160 they announced an independent study just 1554 00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:58,160 a few months ago was going to be 1555 00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:59,119 taken 1556 00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:01,440 into the subject of an identified aerial 1557 00:59:04,549 --> 00:59:02,640 phenomenon 1558 00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:04,559 calm let me come to you first with this 1559 00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:06,880 one now many would say nasa already know 1560 00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:09,040 a lot more than they are letting on 1561 00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:10,880 given some of the footage that's online 1562 00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:12,960 you can view on youtube but also the 1563 00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,960 very nature of what nasa do and the 1564 00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:16,799 equipment they already have and you know 1565 00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:19,119 their equipment is in space 1566 00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:20,799 do you think that line of thinking is 1567 00:59:26,309 --> 00:59:23,760 too conspiratorial or is there something 1568 00:59:29,030 --> 00:59:27,109 um 1569 00:59:31,750 --> 00:59:29,040 you know when i when i was with bigelow 1570 00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:31,760 aerospace we worked very closely with 1571 00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:35,440 nasa for over five years so 1572 00:59:40,230 --> 00:59:38,559 you know we got we got into the uh the 1573 00:59:42,309 --> 00:59:40,240 sort of swing of things of how they 1574 00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:42,319 manage projects 1575 00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:45,119 how they oversee projects and you know 1576 00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:48,240 how often they change personnel is 1577 00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:51,359 uh astounding always has been astounding 1578 00:59:53,430 --> 00:59:52,240 to me 1579 00:59:55,510 --> 00:59:53,440 um 1580 00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:55,520 the general sort of way of doing things 1581 01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:58,319 is if you've got a two-year project you 1582 01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:00,720 generally change program managers about 1583 01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:03,040 three times or four times during that 1584 01:00:06,789 --> 01:00:05,839 two-year project and each time that that 1585 01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:06,799 that 1586 01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:09,599 nasa changes somebody like this the new 1587 01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:11,920 person has to come up to speed the old 1588 01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:14,720 person is is transferred out on you know 1589 01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:16,880 onto something completely different so 1590 01:00:21,829 --> 01:00:19,520 there's this constant learning process 1591 01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:21,839 that's going on and you know you've got 1592 01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:24,240 people of indeterminate 1593 01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:26,720 competence that are sometimes 1594 01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,640 replacing people who really knew their 1595 01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:30,799 stuff so you've got this constant 1596 01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:33,280 revolving door that's one aspect of this 1597 01:00:38,150 --> 01:00:35,040 the second aspect is 1598 01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:38,160 follow the money and um you know this 1599 01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:40,880 new program that uh that nasa was 1600 01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:42,960 talking about has been funded to the 1601 01:00:47,589 --> 01:00:45,200 tune of a hundred thousand dollars 1602 01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:47,599 now a hundred thousand dollars 1603 01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:50,240 may get you a couple of 1604 01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:52,000 really sort of 1605 01:00:56,630 --> 01:00:54,880 technically astute graduate students you 1606 01:00:59,990 --> 01:00:56,640 know somebody who's just done a primary 1607 01:01:01,750 --> 01:01:00,000 degree and uh maybe you know that they 1608 01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:01,760 they could have you know they could 1609 01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:04,559 leverage a few interns onto this but you 1610 01:01:10,390 --> 01:01:07,920 know the kinds of of of information that 1611 01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:10,400 nasa was putting forward in the context 1612 01:01:13,750 --> 01:01:11,920 of this announcement 1613 01:01:15,910 --> 01:01:13,760 um you know all you have to do is follow 1614 01:01:18,390 --> 01:01:15,920 the money to see 1615 01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:18,400 exactly where this this whole thing is 1616 01:01:23,270 --> 01:01:20,960 going to be allocated at most i would 1617 01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:23,280 say it's an afterthought 1618 01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:25,200 i think it's kind of like an element of 1619 01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:28,240 the metoo movement in nasa where you 1620 01:01:32,710 --> 01:01:30,319 know they're seeing the pentagon getting 1621 01:01:35,589 --> 01:01:32,720 a lot of this this sort of press and all 1622 01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:35,599 of that and somebody at nasa's has 1623 01:01:40,390 --> 01:01:38,160 decided okay we better get on this 1624 01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:40,400 because you know we're supposed to be 1625 01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:43,520 involved with the uh you know with the 1626 01:01:48,789 --> 01:01:46,000 whole uh with the whole 1627 01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:48,799 extrasolar extraplanetary 1628 01:01:53,750 --> 01:01:51,280 mission and here we have the dod who's 1629 01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:53,760 dominating this whole thing when we 1630 01:01:59,829 --> 01:01:56,160 should be part of this game so i 1631 01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,839 my own feeling is knowing how nasa 1632 01:02:04,150 --> 01:02:02,240 operates on a day-to-day basis 1633 01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:04,160 from multiple different programs and 1634 01:02:07,990 --> 01:02:06,799 multiple different organizations within 1635 01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:08,000 nasa 1636 01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:11,760 i'm slightly skeptical but you know 1637 01:02:16,390 --> 01:02:13,760 as a counterpoint to that you know if 1638 01:02:19,109 --> 01:02:16,400 you go all the way back in history and 1639 01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:19,119 you look at say the dod clementine 1640 01:02:24,710 --> 01:02:22,559 mission to the moon and uh you know what 1641 01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:24,720 the kind of data that was gathered with 1642 01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:27,359 that and that the overlap with some of 1643 01:02:33,589 --> 01:02:30,000 the program managers in nasa i do 1644 01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:33,599 believe there are people in nasa who uh 1645 01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:36,480 you know who are cognizant of an awful 1646 01:02:40,630 --> 01:02:38,079 lot more than the vast majority of 1647 01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:40,640 people at nasa the the last thing i'll 1648 01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:43,280 say in this is that routinely when 1649 01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:45,680 myself and robert bigelow would be at 1650 01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,000 various site visits and johnson space 1651 01:02:54,549 --> 01:02:51,119 center uh in in houston or nasa 1652 01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,559 headquarters in washington dc or you 1653 01:02:58,630 --> 01:02:56,640 know marshall space flight center in 1654 01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:58,640 huntsville alabama 1655 01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:01,280 we would inevitably be drawn aside you 1656 01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:03,599 know uh out of the meetings sort of in 1657 01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:06,000 the in the corridors and sort of people 1658 01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:08,000 would come up to us and whisper about 1659 01:03:13,109 --> 01:03:10,160 you know that they knew this and that 1660 01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:13,119 and this about the ufo topic but it was 1661 01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:14,799 never out in the open i mean it was 1662 01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:17,599 always sort of subrosa and behind the 1663 01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:19,920 scenes so you know there's that sort of 1664 01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:22,720 culture at nasa too where the the giggle 1665 01:03:27,829 --> 01:03:25,200 factor is very strong 1666 01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:27,839 i would add this uh you know the senator 1667 01:03:31,589 --> 01:03:29,520 bill nelson 1668 01:03:33,430 --> 01:03:31,599 as when he was back in the u.s senate he 1669 01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:33,440 got some of these briefings that were 1670 01:03:37,029 --> 01:03:34,880 delivered the intelligence and armed 1671 01:03:39,109 --> 01:03:37,039 services committees he sat in on him and 1672 01:03:41,109 --> 01:03:39,119 he's made those public comments that he 1673 01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:41,119 was really impressed by what he saw by 1674 01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:42,880 the likes of jay stratton the briefing 1675 01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:44,559 that he delivered to members of congress 1676 01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:46,240 and higher-ups in the pentagon and 1677 01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:48,319 intelligence agencies people like david 1678 01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:50,160 fravor and the other pilots who'd 1679 01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:52,240 experienced the tic tac and gimbal they 1680 01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:54,319 appeared and spoke to these guys and 1681 01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:56,640 several of these elected lawmakers came 1682 01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:59,200 out of those meetings stunned by what 1683 01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:01,440 they had seen bill nelson is one of them 1684 01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,520 he's made good i think on his pledges 1685 01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:05,760 that this is worth investigating and as 1686 01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:08,000 the head of nasa he's expressed he said 1687 01:04:11,750 --> 01:04:09,920 some amazing things you know in public 1688 01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:11,760 forums and to reporters about the 1689 01:04:16,470 --> 01:04:13,200 importance of this and why it's a 1690 01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:16,480 legitimate uh topic for inquiry and i 1691 01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,280 think 1692 01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:19,440 this program that they've announced as 1693 01:04:23,910 --> 01:04:21,039 column said it's a hundred grand which 1694 01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:23,920 is like lunch money for nasa uh it's not 1695 01:04:29,190 --> 01:04:26,720 very much but you know maybe it leads to 1696 01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:29,200 something else depending on the kind of 1697 01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:31,440 uh response they get from the public 1698 01:04:35,430 --> 01:04:33,359 today in the u.s 1699 01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:35,440 january i mean on july 4th is the day 1700 01:04:38,789 --> 01:04:36,880 we're recording this there's an 1701 01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:38,799 editorial in the washington post the 1702 01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:41,280 washington post editorial board one of 1703 01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:43,280 the most influential editorial boards 1704 01:04:47,029 --> 01:04:44,799 the united states 1705 01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:47,039 put out a release that said nasa is to 1706 01:04:51,589 --> 01:04:49,359 be congratulated for going after this 1707 01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:51,599 attaboy go after it it should be under 1708 01:04:54,789 --> 01:04:52,640 nasa 1709 01:04:56,710 --> 01:04:54,799 it's always been so strange and 1710 01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:56,720 counter-intuitive you know we mentioned 1711 01:05:01,990 --> 01:04:58,640 about the hostility of the air force and 1712 01:05:02,950 --> 01:05:02,000 ousdi to the ufo topic nasa's been right 1713 01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:02,960 there 1714 01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,640 officially on the record they've been 1715 01:05:08,390 --> 01:05:06,640 incredibly hostile to it which 1716 01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:08,400 counter-intuitive in the sense that if 1717 01:05:12,630 --> 01:05:10,400 you had evidence of extraterrestrial 1718 01:05:15,190 --> 01:05:12,640 life or some kind of previous life on 1719 01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:15,200 earth on mars or venus or somewhere else 1720 01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:17,760 in the cosmos what it would do to nasa's 1721 01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:19,599 budget you'd presume that they'd want to 1722 01:05:22,870 --> 01:05:21,119 find it that it would be a great 1723 01:05:24,710 --> 01:05:22,880 adventure that's what they're supposed 1724 01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:24,720 to do but they've had to be drag kicking 1725 01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:26,880 and screaming to get anywhere near this 1726 01:05:33,029 --> 01:05:30,400 topic you remember in 1977 jimmy carter 1727 01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:33,039 is president he had vowed as a as a 1728 01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,720 candidate when he gets in there he's 1729 01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:36,880 going to release the ufo files one of 1730 01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:38,640 the first things he did is tell nasa get 1731 01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:41,440 on this and they basically told him to 1732 01:05:44,309 --> 01:05:42,720 buzz off 1733 01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:44,319 they weren't going to do it even at the 1734 01:05:48,630 --> 01:05:46,640 orders of the president 1735 01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:48,640 why an organization like nasa that 1736 01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:50,559 presumably would be really interested in 1737 01:05:54,390 --> 01:05:51,839 what's out there 1738 01:05:56,549 --> 01:05:54,400 would resist uh studying this is really 1739 01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:56,559 been curious over the years we know that 1740 01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:58,000 some of their astronauts have made some 1741 01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:59,760 pretty provocative statements about 1742 01:06:03,510 --> 01:06:01,520 things that they've seen films that 1743 01:06:05,029 --> 01:06:03,520 they've seen encounters they had as they 1744 01:06:06,150 --> 01:06:05,039 were test pilots 1745 01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:06,160 but 1746 01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:08,240 officially they want nothing to do with 1747 01:06:11,430 --> 01:06:09,440 it so 1748 01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:11,440 even though this is a very small program 1749 01:06:16,630 --> 01:06:14,480 and a small budget it represents a huge 1750 01:06:18,390 --> 01:06:16,640 change in the attitude of nasa from 1751 01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:18,400 what's happened in years past i'm 1752 01:06:21,029 --> 01:06:19,680 encouraged by it i hope it leads 1753 01:06:22,710 --> 01:06:21,039 somewhere 1754 01:06:25,430 --> 01:06:22,720 coleman you made a great point about you 1755 01:06:28,150 --> 01:06:25,440 know nasa and the the churn and that 1756 01:06:30,630 --> 01:06:28,160 overturning of staff at different levels 1757 01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:30,640 and that's something that's levied often 1758 01:06:34,789 --> 01:06:32,079 at the us government and other 1759 01:06:36,230 --> 01:06:34,799 governments that that statement the the 1760 01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,240 government know what's happening with 1761 01:06:40,470 --> 01:06:38,400 the ufo topic well the government isn't 1762 01:06:41,910 --> 01:06:40,480 one or two people the government is 1763 01:06:43,589 --> 01:06:41,920 departments and we hear the word 1764 01:06:46,230 --> 01:06:43,599 compartmentalization 1765 01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:46,240 and i'm sure nasa is exactly the same 1766 01:06:50,470 --> 01:06:48,160 and you know if you say nasa know what's 1767 01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:50,480 going on well who is nasa is that the 1768 01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:52,240 guy or the women sitting at their desk 1769 01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:54,160 that are you know they have a job at a 1770 01:06:58,309 --> 01:06:56,160 computer console 1771 01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:58,319 however on the other side of that we do 1772 01:07:02,230 --> 01:07:00,079 now have bill nelson like you mentioned 1773 01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,240 george who is uh well briefed on the 1774 01:07:06,549 --> 01:07:04,319 subject he is i suppose a fan and 1775 01:07:08,870 --> 01:07:06,559 friendly to the ufo subject 1776 01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:08,880 what's to stop with with those interns 1777 01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:11,039 calm you mentioned and i'm gonna go down 1778 01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:12,480 a layman's route here i think because 1779 01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:14,720 it's as good as i can get a hundred 1780 01:07:19,670 --> 01:07:17,440 grand gets you a couple of interns wants 1781 01:07:21,270 --> 01:07:19,680 to stop bill nelson saying look given 1782 01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:21,280 the comments we've had from former 1783 01:07:25,349 --> 01:07:23,359 astronauts and certain missions 1784 01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:25,359 uh given some of the footage that is 1785 01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:27,280 clearly available to the public online 1786 01:07:31,109 --> 01:07:29,280 on youtube 1787 01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:31,119 what's to stop those interns just going 1788 01:07:35,109 --> 01:07:32,799 through some of that footage and some of 1789 01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,119 those previous missions and just just 1790 01:07:39,349 --> 01:07:37,280 archival stuff and going what can we 1791 01:07:41,109 --> 01:07:39,359 present what can we bring forward that 1792 01:07:43,029 --> 01:07:41,119 looks looks anomalous 1793 01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:43,039 and is in line with what this you know 1794 01:07:48,789 --> 01:07:46,640 task force is potentially looking for 1795 01:07:50,950 --> 01:07:48,799 yeah really i think it really all 1796 01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:50,960 depends on um 1797 01:07:55,750 --> 01:07:53,520 who these who these people are i mean 1798 01:07:57,589 --> 01:07:55,760 whoever is tasked on that i know we have 1799 01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:57,599 a couple of names 1800 01:08:00,950 --> 01:07:58,960 and actually 1801 01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:00,960 you know i'm hoping to learn an awful 1802 01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:03,200 lot more about the inside of this 1803 01:08:07,349 --> 01:08:05,359 program soon but 1804 01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:07,359 it really will all depend on who's 1805 01:08:13,109 --> 01:08:10,559 tasked to do this because it'll either 1806 01:08:15,589 --> 01:08:13,119 be a going through the motions exercise 1807 01:08:17,829 --> 01:08:15,599 or it could be depending on the people 1808 01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:17,839 involved it could be a tremendously 1809 01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:19,040 productive 1810 01:08:25,749 --> 01:08:22,319 uh first step and a much longer process 1811 01:08:29,110 --> 01:08:25,759 so um you know there is a tremendous 1812 01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:29,120 amount of footage um that nasa already 1813 01:08:32,550 --> 01:08:30,000 has 1814 01:08:34,630 --> 01:08:32,560 um and it would be a question of going 1815 01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:34,640 through the red tape going through the 1816 01:08:40,070 --> 01:08:37,440 various departments and nasa is 1817 01:08:43,269 --> 01:08:40,080 incredibly compartmentalized 1818 01:08:46,550 --> 01:08:43,279 and so sociologically you know each of 1819 01:08:49,110 --> 01:08:46,560 the independent centers are are fiefdoms 1820 01:08:50,229 --> 01:08:49,120 essentially and so you've got you've got 1821 01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:50,239 a lot of 1822 01:08:56,470 --> 01:08:53,520 sort of um lack of communication between 1823 01:08:59,189 --> 01:08:56,480 the main centers and there's a equally a 1824 01:09:02,470 --> 01:08:59,199 lack of communication between the uh 1825 01:09:04,870 --> 01:09:02,480 headquarters at nasa in washington dc 1826 01:09:08,229 --> 01:09:04,880 and all of the different centers but you 1827 01:09:10,630 --> 01:09:08,239 know i'm an optimist so 1828 01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:10,640 if there is a couple of really good 1829 01:09:16,070 --> 01:09:12,480 people put on this 1830 01:09:20,470 --> 01:09:16,080 and that it is a step forward and some 1831 01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:20,480 actual genuine data is put together um 1832 01:09:26,390 --> 01:09:23,440 that could be useful as a first step in 1833 01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:26,400 a multi-step process then i do see it as 1834 01:09:32,149 --> 01:09:29,440 a as a as a possibility um you know the 1835 01:09:35,349 --> 01:09:32,159 other part of this whole thing is one 1836 01:09:39,269 --> 01:09:35,359 reason for nasa's reluctance 1837 01:09:41,030 --> 01:09:39,279 um historically is in this is that the 1838 01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:41,040 seti institute the search for 1839 01:09:46,789 --> 01:09:43,759 extraterrestrial intelligence 1840 01:09:50,070 --> 01:09:46,799 has originally was associated with nasa 1841 01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:50,080 and then it became sort of uh private 1842 01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:51,359 and sort of has always had a 1843 01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:53,440 relationship with nasa and that 1844 01:10:00,630 --> 01:09:57,520 overflows into the astrobiology uh realm 1845 01:10:03,350 --> 01:10:00,640 in at nasa where the origins of life 1846 01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:03,360 have been researched there's always been 1847 01:10:09,990 --> 01:10:07,280 a gigantic chasm between the ufo topic 1848 01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:10,000 um and the search for extraterrestrial 1849 01:10:14,070 --> 01:10:11,120 intelligence 1850 01:10:16,390 --> 01:10:14,080 topic and you know seti was always sort 1851 01:10:20,229 --> 01:10:16,400 of trying to be more respectable than 1852 01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:20,239 the ufo topic so it's a bit like this 1853 01:10:24,310 --> 01:10:21,360 latest 1854 01:10:27,350 --> 01:10:24,320 science magazine uh uh 1855 01:10:29,910 --> 01:10:27,360 salvo against uh travis taylor 1856 01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:29,920 said he institute badmouthed ufos at 1857 01:10:36,070 --> 01:10:33,280 nasa for decades as on the astrobiology 1858 01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,080 community which is aligned with the seti 1859 01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:39,120 uh community has also bad mouthed ufos 1860 01:10:44,149 --> 01:10:42,000 for decades at nasa so 1861 01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:44,159 what we're seeing in the last six months 1862 01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:47,520 with senator bill nelson is a major 1863 01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:49,440 quantum leap i mean there's no doubt 1864 01:10:54,709 --> 01:10:52,560 about it in terms of the sociology of 1865 01:10:57,350 --> 01:10:54,719 this uh of this looking at this 1866 01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:57,360 phenomenon i totally agree with george 1867 01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:00,239 it is a sea change uh for nasa to 1868 01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,390 from a company who is very much in the 1869 01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:08,480 stars i want to talk about another one 1870 01:11:13,350 --> 01:11:10,320 george that you know well and reported 1871 01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:13,360 on to the stars with tom delong and jim 1872 01:11:19,189 --> 01:11:15,840 semivan still very much appears to be in 1873 01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:19,199 the game so to speak um i was on the jim 1874 01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:21,600 simovan and tom delong's call a couple 1875 01:11:25,830 --> 01:11:22,800 of weeks ago 1876 01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:25,840 to investors and others when they were 1877 01:11:29,910 --> 01:11:28,480 announcing the new media deals that they 1878 01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:29,920 have going and i just wanted some 1879 01:11:35,830 --> 01:11:32,880 thoughts from both of you on this um now 1880 01:11:37,430 --> 01:11:35,840 monsters in california is due out soon 1881 01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:37,440 and tom delong said they're trying to 1882 01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:40,000 get distributors for that tom de long 1883 01:11:45,270 --> 01:11:42,320 claims that these are very much 1884 01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:45,280 a way of disclosing the ufo subject and 1885 01:11:50,070 --> 01:11:48,000 related phenomena through a modern media 1886 01:11:51,830 --> 01:11:50,080 like like movies now that's not new 1887 01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:51,840 close encounters the third kind in other 1888 01:11:54,550 --> 01:11:53,440 movies and such have been around for a 1889 01:11:56,950 --> 01:11:54,560 long time 1890 01:12:00,310 --> 01:11:56,960 but what are your thoughts george first 1891 01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:00,320 as to to what to the star's role as now 1892 01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:02,640 in the ufo movement given what they've 1893 01:12:09,910 --> 01:12:07,040 done from 2016 and on onwards 1894 01:12:11,350 --> 01:12:09,920 i think that the world has has sold tom 1895 01:12:12,790 --> 01:12:11,360 de long short 1896 01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:12,800 and the public has made a lot of 1897 01:12:17,830 --> 01:12:15,440 mistakes in underestimating uh the 1898 01:12:20,229 --> 01:12:17,840 energy and intelligence that he has and 1899 01:12:22,390 --> 01:12:20,239 his ability to get things done i suspect 1900 01:12:25,590 --> 01:12:22,400 it is fair to say that tom and to the 1901 01:12:27,830 --> 01:12:25,600 stars shot too high that they they 1902 01:12:29,430 --> 01:12:27,840 really had goals that were not reachable 1903 01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:29,440 that the first incarnation of the 1904 01:12:35,350 --> 01:12:32,320 company they wanted to build a craft an 1905 01:12:37,189 --> 01:12:35,360 anti-gravity craft based on what they uh 1906 01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:37,199 reverse engineering programs they've 1907 01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:38,239 heard about 1908 01:12:42,390 --> 01:12:40,640 and a lot of other ambitious projects 1909 01:12:44,630 --> 01:12:42,400 that didn't come to fruition in part 1910 01:12:46,229 --> 01:12:44,640 because the public the investing public 1911 01:12:47,830 --> 01:12:46,239 didn't come forward they didn't sign up 1912 01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,840 they didn't send them a bunch of money 1913 01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:49,440 so all the plans that they had in mind 1914 01:12:52,550 --> 01:12:50,880 sort of went out the window and they had 1915 01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:52,560 to be scaled back and 1916 01:12:56,550 --> 01:12:54,239 and uh you know and now it's a much 1917 01:12:59,110 --> 01:12:56,560 different company elizondo and melon 1918 01:13:01,350 --> 01:12:59,120 have left uh steve justice has left the 1919 01:13:03,350 --> 01:13:01,360 plans to build their own craft are gone 1920 01:13:05,910 --> 01:13:03,360 but tom has always been an effective 1921 01:13:08,390 --> 01:13:05,920 communicator an effective entertainer a 1922 01:13:09,910 --> 01:13:08,400 great storyteller he's got he's been 1923 01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:09,920 telling us for a long time he's got 1924 01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:12,400 these great movie deals in the works 1925 01:13:15,669 --> 01:13:14,000 to go along with recording deals and 1926 01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:15,679 other things his books have been 1927 01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:16,960 successful 1928 01:13:22,470 --> 01:13:20,400 so if the new revised ttsa is scaled 1929 01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:22,480 down to an entertainment company and 1930 01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:24,560 just focuses on that i suspect that it 1931 01:13:28,310 --> 01:13:26,719 can be a big success i i got to spend 1932 01:13:30,550 --> 01:13:28,320 some time with tom a couple of months 1933 01:13:32,870 --> 01:13:30,560 ago i went down to san diego and we went 1934 01:13:35,669 --> 01:13:32,880 to a ball game to see the padres versus 1935 01:13:37,590 --> 01:13:35,679 the dodgers and had some chance to catch 1936 01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:37,600 up and you know he's has boundless 1937 01:13:43,669 --> 01:13:40,560 energy and enthusiasm he's a smart uh 1938 01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:43,679 guy and uh he loves this subject matter 1939 01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:45,120 and he's going to drive it home now 1940 01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:47,360 whether or not the public will perceive 1941 01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:49,600 the movies and the books fiction books 1942 01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,920 that he puts out as being the actual 1943 01:13:55,750 --> 01:13:53,760 story the real deal 1944 01:13:57,750 --> 01:13:55,760 i don't know it'll remain to be seen but 1945 01:14:00,149 --> 01:13:57,760 i've learned not to sell him short i 1946 01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:00,159 don't own any of the company stock uh 1947 01:14:05,189 --> 01:14:02,640 and i i i'm not encouraging people to 1948 01:14:06,870 --> 01:14:05,199 buy it but but i wish him well i i hope 1949 01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:06,880 he does well 1950 01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:08,719 coleman when george was mentioning tom 1951 01:14:13,270 --> 01:14:11,040 delong and his intelligence and his 1952 01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:13,280 drive you were nodding along and i'm 1953 01:14:16,709 --> 01:14:15,120 presuming that's that's notions that you 1954 01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:16,719 want to agree with but also what are 1955 01:14:21,350 --> 01:14:18,960 your thoughts on this idea of 1956 01:14:23,189 --> 01:14:21,360 discussing topics like skinwalker ranch 1957 01:14:24,709 --> 01:14:23,199 and some of those experiences that you 1958 01:14:27,030 --> 01:14:24,719 studied and have investigated and 1959 01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:27,040 written about and putting ideas like 1960 01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:29,760 that out into the public through can a 1961 01:14:37,110 --> 01:14:33,120 team rom-com slasher romance thriller 1962 01:14:41,590 --> 01:14:39,350 yeah rom-com on skin worker ranch i 1963 01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:41,600 think would be a really good good theme 1964 01:14:45,350 --> 01:14:42,480 i think 1965 01:14:47,189 --> 01:14:45,360 you know depending on who's who's behind 1966 01:14:49,189 --> 01:14:47,199 you know who were the actors you could 1967 01:14:52,229 --> 01:14:49,199 you could get something steamy going and 1968 01:14:54,950 --> 01:14:52,239 uh in homestead too 1969 01:14:58,149 --> 01:14:54,960 but you know seriously i i do think it's 1970 01:15:02,070 --> 01:14:58,159 a very viable way of of getting the 1971 01:15:04,709 --> 01:15:02,080 information out you know i think the um 1972 01:15:06,870 --> 01:15:04,719 the the hunt for the skinwalker movie 1973 01:15:07,830 --> 01:15:06,880 that was put out with jeremy corbell and 1974 01:15:09,430 --> 01:15:07,840 george 1975 01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:09,440 um there are 1976 01:15:14,870 --> 01:15:12,080 a few years ago i think it it got a lot 1977 01:15:17,350 --> 01:15:14,880 of traction and it it generated a 1978 01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:17,360 tremendous amount of enthusiasm and it 1979 01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:20,480 also uh boomeranged back into 1980 01:15:26,630 --> 01:15:24,239 um the you know uh the books it it 1981 01:15:27,430 --> 01:15:26,640 caused a lot of discussion you know with 1982 01:15:29,990 --> 01:15:27,440 us 1983 01:15:32,550 --> 01:15:30,000 um uh we have we got people contacting 1984 01:15:34,709 --> 01:15:32,560 us that we would not have contacted us 1985 01:15:38,390 --> 01:15:34,719 uh asking questions so it provoked a lot 1986 01:15:40,149 --> 01:15:38,400 of dialogue so i see uh the media as 1987 01:15:41,110 --> 01:15:40,159 being a tremendously 1988 01:15:42,709 --> 01:15:41,120 um 1989 01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:42,719 you know 1990 01:15:46,950 --> 01:15:45,600 promising avenue for for putting this 1991 01:15:47,910 --> 01:15:46,960 word out because 1992 01:15:49,830 --> 01:15:47,920 you know 1993 01:15:52,229 --> 01:15:49,840 books can be pretty dry 1994 01:15:55,030 --> 01:15:52,239 not a lot of people read books audio 1995 01:15:57,669 --> 01:15:55,040 books are are better than normal books 1996 01:15:59,590 --> 01:15:57,679 but then you've got movies and then 1997 01:16:01,990 --> 01:15:59,600 um i mean 1998 01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:02,000 that the the end point the logical end 1999 01:16:06,550 --> 01:16:03,679 point of this whole thing is tick tock 2000 01:16:08,950 --> 01:16:06,560 but you know quite frankly i have not uh 2001 01:16:11,990 --> 01:16:08,960 not had any experience with tick tock at 2002 01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:12,000 all but i do see that the movie uh 2003 01:16:17,750 --> 01:16:15,040 business as being a very legitimate way 2004 01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:17,760 of of changing an awful lot of people's 2005 01:16:21,590 --> 01:16:20,480 minds i mean i still remember walking 2006 01:16:23,990 --> 01:16:21,600 into 2007 01:16:26,550 --> 01:16:24,000 that that movie close encounters of the 2008 01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:26,560 third kind that steven steele spielberg 2009 01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:29,600 did and um you know i remember being 2010 01:16:35,430 --> 01:16:32,560 floored by that movie it was like a game 2011 01:16:37,510 --> 01:16:35,440 changer for me and um 2012 01:16:40,070 --> 01:16:37,520 you know i think it did the same for 2013 01:16:42,550 --> 01:16:40,080 millions of people so i think the media 2014 01:16:44,550 --> 01:16:42,560 has a tremendous role to play 2015 01:16:46,709 --> 01:16:44,560 there was a scene you know independence 2016 01:16:49,350 --> 01:16:46,719 day july 4th again we're recording on 2017 01:16:50,950 --> 01:16:49,360 july 4th the movie independence day 2018 01:16:52,870 --> 01:16:50,960 um you know of course a lot of the 2019 01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:52,880 stories that i had covered 2020 01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:55,280 for our news were incorporated into that 2021 01:16:59,910 --> 01:16:57,280 about area 51 is the place that you know 2022 01:17:01,590 --> 01:16:59,920 that repels the alien invasion and and i 2023 01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:01,600 remember being in a special screening of 2024 01:17:06,709 --> 01:17:04,400 that movie weeks before it came out with 2025 01:17:08,229 --> 01:17:06,719 the director and the producer were there 2026 01:17:10,310 --> 01:17:08,239 sitting there with members of the public 2027 01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:10,320 and they come to that scene where 2028 01:17:14,310 --> 01:17:12,080 the president is being informed there 2029 01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:14,320 really is a place called area 51 and 2030 01:17:18,070 --> 01:17:16,239 people in the audience go and see i told 2031 01:17:19,430 --> 01:17:18,080 you it was real i'm thinking to myself 2032 01:17:21,750 --> 01:17:19,440 boy after all these years of me 2033 01:17:23,189 --> 01:17:21,760 reporting on it and they finally accept 2034 01:17:27,270 --> 01:17:23,199 that it's real because they saw it in 2035 01:17:29,350 --> 01:17:27,280 this movie um i i was aghast and also 2036 01:17:31,270 --> 01:17:29,360 encouraged at the same time so a movie 2037 01:17:33,830 --> 01:17:31,280 is a great way to convey it and it catch 2038 01:17:35,590 --> 01:17:33,840 the public's imagination uh the x-files 2039 01:17:37,669 --> 01:17:35,600 has proven that 2040 01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:37,679 yeah call call my agree with you when 2041 01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:39,840 you mention a tech talk i prefer tic 2042 01:17:44,790 --> 01:17:42,080 tacs to tick-tock definitely it's one 2043 01:17:46,870 --> 01:17:44,800 that's passing me by even at 36 2044 01:17:49,590 --> 01:17:46,880 um but i want to ask george you 2045 01:17:51,910 --> 01:17:49,600 mentioned tom delong and the public 2046 01:17:54,470 --> 01:17:51,920 didn't go along with the cash that they 2047 01:17:55,669 --> 01:17:54,480 were looking for for those big plan a 2048 01:17:58,149 --> 01:17:55,679 plans 2049 01:18:00,310 --> 01:17:58,159 is there a little bit though of the the 2050 01:18:03,030 --> 01:18:00,320 character of tom delong much like travis 2051 01:18:04,470 --> 01:18:03,040 taylor has suffered from his tv persona 2052 01:18:06,790 --> 01:18:04,480 with with some 2053 01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:06,800 that people look at tom delong and say 2054 01:18:11,830 --> 01:18:09,520 that guy that guy is going to be the the 2055 01:18:14,470 --> 01:18:11,840 disclosure head and that's why people 2056 01:18:17,030 --> 01:18:14,480 one didn't invest but we've still not 2057 01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:17,040 seen a public swelling that many many 2058 01:18:20,390 --> 01:18:18,560 hoped for 2059 01:18:23,270 --> 01:18:20,400 to to kind of jump on the tom the long 2060 01:18:27,910 --> 01:18:25,430 i guess that could be part of it i think 2061 01:18:29,910 --> 01:18:27,920 it's unfair tom has boundless energy and 2062 01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:29,920 great enthusiasm and he's a smart guy 2063 01:18:34,390 --> 01:18:32,400 and he knows about as much as about ufos 2064 01:18:36,790 --> 01:18:34,400 and the history of the phenomena and the 2065 01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:36,800 studies the secret government studies as 2066 01:18:40,790 --> 01:18:38,640 almost anybody in the country 2067 01:18:42,870 --> 01:18:40,800 so his knowledge is actually pretty good 2068 01:18:45,350 --> 01:18:42,880 i can see people wondering is this the 2069 01:18:48,149 --> 01:18:45,360 guy we follow to the disclosure promised 2070 01:18:50,229 --> 01:18:48,159 land and wondering uh if he is in fact 2071 01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:50,239 the right guy but tom surrounded himself 2072 01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:53,120 with top-notch people lou elizondo and 2073 01:18:57,830 --> 01:18:55,440 chris mellon and hal put off and and jim 2074 01:19:00,149 --> 01:18:57,840 simavan and steve justice if they're 2075 01:19:02,790 --> 01:19:00,159 looking for credibility he had it and 2076 01:19:04,950 --> 01:19:02,800 and to give them credit 2077 01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:04,960 ttsa changed the 2078 01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:06,960 national the international discussion on 2079 01:19:11,189 --> 01:19:09,120 this topic they took this stuff to the 2080 01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:11,199 new york times and talked the times into 2081 01:19:15,590 --> 01:19:13,360 into going forward with the story it was 2082 01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:15,600 nice to have the tic tac video to go 2083 01:19:19,750 --> 01:19:17,280 along with it and to be able to have 2084 01:19:21,830 --> 01:19:19,760 dave fraber confirm that it was true 2085 01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:21,840 all those contributed to it but really 2086 01:19:25,990 --> 01:19:23,760 tom delong putting together his 2087 01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:26,000 organization having a place for lou 2088 01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:27,840 elizondo to land 2089 01:19:32,149 --> 01:19:29,840 and then taking that his celebrity 2090 01:19:35,030 --> 01:19:32,159 status and using that to get in the door 2091 01:19:37,189 --> 01:19:35,040 with people at the lockheed martin skunk 2092 01:19:38,790 --> 01:19:37,199 works and then eventually to the new 2093 01:19:40,870 --> 01:19:38,800 york times that changed the whole 2094 01:19:42,790 --> 01:19:40,880 narrative it changed everything forever 2095 01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:42,800 whether you like tom delong or you trust 2096 01:19:45,430 --> 01:19:43,920 him or not 2097 01:19:47,669 --> 01:19:45,440 i give him a lot of credit for what he's 2098 01:19:49,830 --> 01:19:47,679 accomplished and uh if you are strictly 2099 01:19:53,750 --> 01:19:49,840 talking about the entertainment realm 2100 01:19:55,430 --> 01:19:53,760 movies tv music books i i 2101 01:19:57,750 --> 01:19:55,440 i think he's got a lot of credibility in 2102 01:19:59,350 --> 01:19:57,760 those venues 2103 01:20:00,630 --> 01:19:59,360 let me just finish off gents we've got a 2104 01:20:02,470 --> 01:20:00,640 couple of minutes remaining and you've 2105 01:20:04,630 --> 01:20:02,480 been very very generous with your time i 2106 01:20:07,270 --> 01:20:04,640 really have appreciated this and i want 2107 01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:07,280 to look forward to what still may happen 2108 01:20:11,270 --> 01:20:09,360 this year with a little bit of a quick 2109 01:20:13,110 --> 01:20:11,280 fire but getting both your opinions now 2110 01:20:15,430 --> 01:20:13,120 you mentioned louis lozando george i'll 2111 01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:15,440 come to you first we know lou is 2112 01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:17,760 currently penning his book 2113 01:20:20,950 --> 01:20:20,159 that could come out this year i'm going 2114 01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:20,960 to 2115 01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:23,040 hedge my bets and say early next year 2116 01:20:28,709 --> 01:20:25,760 potentially for that one but 2117 01:20:31,350 --> 01:20:28,719 what are your expectations from from 2118 01:20:34,790 --> 01:20:33,510 i really don't know i mean 2119 01:20:37,510 --> 01:20:34,800 hopefully there could be some 2120 01:20:39,910 --> 01:20:37,520 clarification of some of the gaps in the 2121 01:20:41,990 --> 01:20:39,920 story uh there you know since our book 2122 01:20:43,590 --> 01:20:42,000 skin walkers at the pentagon came out 2123 01:20:45,189 --> 01:20:43,600 people have tried to characterize it as 2124 01:20:47,350 --> 01:20:45,199 an attack on lou 2125 01:20:49,430 --> 01:20:47,360 or you know people have taken 2126 01:20:51,510 --> 01:20:49,440 cherry-picked bits and pieces to attack 2127 01:20:53,590 --> 01:20:51,520 his credibility here's why he's not 2128 01:20:55,830 --> 01:20:53,600 telling the in the story it was never an 2129 01:20:58,229 --> 01:20:55,840 attack on lou there is a consistent 2130 01:21:01,350 --> 01:20:58,239 narrative in between that 2131 01:21:03,750 --> 01:21:01,360 from awsap to atip to the uap task force 2132 01:21:06,310 --> 01:21:03,760 to aim song and it's easily uh 2133 01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:06,320 verifiable i hope that lou will be able 2134 01:21:11,350 --> 01:21:09,040 to tell us uh fill in some of the gaps 2135 01:21:12,950 --> 01:21:11,360 and what we know about the atip period 2136 01:21:15,510 --> 01:21:12,960 column and i can talk to you all day 2137 01:21:17,669 --> 01:21:15,520 about awesome we can't really tell you 2138 01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:17,679 exactly what was going on with atip 2139 01:21:21,350 --> 01:21:19,199 because so much of it was under the 2140 01:21:23,270 --> 01:21:21,360 radar and unofficial you know as he 2141 01:21:25,510 --> 01:21:23,280 mentioned that nobody had a full-time 2142 01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:25,520 job working for atep no one 2143 01:21:29,030 --> 01:21:27,600 it doesn't mean it wasn't real program 2144 01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:29,040 people when we made those kind of 2145 01:21:33,430 --> 01:21:31,199 statements that atip didn't have a 2146 01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:33,440 single full-time staff member they see 2147 01:21:37,270 --> 01:21:35,360 that as an attack on blue elizando and 2148 01:21:39,350 --> 01:21:37,280 it is not it was just a different kind 2149 01:21:42,390 --> 01:21:39,360 of a program the fact is the work that 2150 01:21:44,870 --> 01:21:42,400 they did that took lou to ttsa and then 2151 01:21:47,270 --> 01:21:44,880 to the new york times changed everything 2152 01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:47,280 you know it changed everything so i i 2153 01:21:51,750 --> 01:21:49,040 hope that he will share with us what his 2154 01:21:54,470 --> 01:21:51,760 journey has been like um 2155 01:21:56,709 --> 01:21:54,480 and i know lou pretty well and 2156 01:21:57,990 --> 01:21:56,719 it's been tough it's been tough on him 2157 01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:58,000 and his family 2158 01:22:01,990 --> 01:21:59,679 uh the kinds of things that he's had to 2159 01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:02,000 endure both from the public the ufo 2160 01:22:06,870 --> 01:22:04,880 public the ufo twitter public 2161 01:22:08,629 --> 01:22:06,880 and uh and his former colleagues at the 2162 01:22:10,310 --> 01:22:08,639 pentagon they've really come after him 2163 01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:10,320 you know he was telling me in the first 2164 01:22:14,310 --> 01:22:12,639 very first interview we did january of 2165 01:22:16,550 --> 01:22:14,320 2018 2166 01:22:18,310 --> 01:22:16,560 uh that the guys that were left behind 2167 01:22:20,550 --> 01:22:18,320 who were surprised when he showed up on 2168 01:22:22,310 --> 01:22:20,560 that stage with tom delong in october 2169 01:22:24,950 --> 01:22:22,320 2017 and then on the front page of the 2170 01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:24,960 new york times they were pissed off and 2171 01:22:28,629 --> 01:22:26,719 they let it be known and they're still 2172 01:22:31,189 --> 01:22:28,639 pissed off you know we've seen the 2173 01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:31,199 implications the the ramifications of 2174 01:22:35,910 --> 01:22:33,600 that the battles with the the inspector 2175 01:22:37,669 --> 01:22:35,920 general and his former lou's former boss 2176 01:22:39,510 --> 01:22:37,679 this gary reed guy 2177 01:22:40,709 --> 01:22:39,520 that's real i know what he's gone 2178 01:22:41,830 --> 01:22:40,719 through 2179 01:22:44,070 --> 01:22:41,840 has been 2180 01:22:45,669 --> 01:22:44,080 brutal and i look forward to hearing 2181 01:22:47,669 --> 01:22:45,679 that story because the public needs to 2182 01:22:49,750 --> 01:22:47,679 hear it this is this is not a game this 2183 01:22:51,750 --> 01:22:49,760 is real 2184 01:22:54,709 --> 01:22:51,760 any expectations from yourself calm in 2185 01:22:57,350 --> 01:22:54,719 terms of lew's book 2186 01:23:00,470 --> 01:22:57,360 um i would guess that the the book is 2187 01:23:02,550 --> 01:23:00,480 going to go through um a review process 2188 01:23:04,149 --> 01:23:02,560 just like our book went through so i 2189 01:23:07,990 --> 01:23:04,159 don't know if it's going to be published 2190 01:23:11,030 --> 01:23:08,000 this year uh really depends on how fast 2191 01:23:12,550 --> 01:23:11,040 dobser it took it took dobson 14 months 2192 01:23:16,390 --> 01:23:12,560 to go through our book 2193 01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:16,400 um i it probably is a lot quicker than 2194 01:23:18,950 --> 01:23:17,520 um 2195 01:23:20,870 --> 01:23:18,960 you know i think 2196 01:23:22,790 --> 01:23:20,880 depending on what's in his book i guess 2197 01:23:25,270 --> 01:23:22,800 it will will be 2198 01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:25,280 uh will dictate the length of the review 2199 01:23:30,390 --> 01:23:27,440 but you know i would like to see more 2200 01:23:34,229 --> 01:23:30,400 detail from lou on 2201 01:23:35,910 --> 01:23:34,239 uh fundamentally what did atip do uh 2202 01:23:38,709 --> 01:23:35,920 what did it accomplish 2203 01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:38,719 what reports were written uh what what 2204 01:23:42,629 --> 01:23:40,320 kind of uh 2205 01:23:45,189 --> 01:23:42,639 i mean you can talk generically about 2206 01:23:48,229 --> 01:23:45,199 cases without giving uh classified 2207 01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:48,239 information away and you know i i would 2208 01:23:51,750 --> 01:23:50,800 like to have more information 2209 01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:51,760 um 2210 01:23:57,270 --> 01:23:54,320 uh to fill in those gaps 2211 01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:57,280 but you know i i think i think george is 2212 01:24:02,550 --> 01:23:59,600 right i mean i think it's been one hell 2213 01:24:03,430 --> 01:24:02,560 of a roller coaster since lou left 2214 01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:03,440 the 2215 01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:05,120 ousbi 2216 01:24:10,470 --> 01:24:08,400 all the way back in late 2017. it's been 2217 01:24:12,070 --> 01:24:10,480 a hell of a roller coaster 2218 01:24:14,310 --> 01:24:12,080 can i just ask you a quick question 2219 01:24:16,790 --> 01:24:14,320 regarding that um 2220 01:24:20,149 --> 01:24:16,800 vetting process the book goes through 2221 01:24:21,750 --> 01:24:20,159 if you put an inaccuracy in the book is 2222 01:24:24,310 --> 01:24:21,760 that something that would be flagged and 2223 01:24:26,709 --> 01:24:24,320 have to be removed or if you out and out 2224 01:24:28,870 --> 01:24:26,719 lied about something again would that 2225 01:24:30,629 --> 01:24:28,880 have to be removed or could it still be 2226 01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:30,639 left in 2227 01:24:35,669 --> 01:24:32,880 well it depends on uh who's doing the 2228 01:24:37,910 --> 01:24:35,679 reviewing and how familiar they are with 2229 01:24:40,550 --> 01:24:37,920 the programs on the topics because 2230 01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:40,560 you know um i spoke about the the 2231 01:24:44,550 --> 01:24:42,880 revolving door at nasa the revolving 2232 01:24:47,830 --> 01:24:44,560 door at dod 2233 01:24:51,110 --> 01:24:47,840 is also pretty uh active so 2234 01:24:53,350 --> 01:24:51,120 um it really will would depend on 2235 01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:53,360 the level of scrutiny that something 2236 01:24:59,350 --> 01:24:56,400 like that would get so yes inaccuracies 2237 01:25:01,669 --> 01:24:59,360 can stay in there if there are people 2238 01:25:04,790 --> 01:25:01,679 um who are on top of that 2239 01:25:08,310 --> 01:25:04,800 um you know uh inaccuracies will will 2240 01:25:11,110 --> 01:25:08,320 stay in there um it it really depends on 2241 01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:11,120 the level of scrutiny our our book went 2242 01:25:16,629 --> 01:25:13,440 through a couple of different reviews 2243 01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:16,639 from individuals and it went through uh 2244 01:25:20,790 --> 01:25:17,679 three 2245 01:25:24,310 --> 01:25:20,800 departments 2246 01:25:26,790 --> 01:25:24,320 uh that had a stake in uh in the various 2247 01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:26,800 parts of the book so um 2248 01:25:29,910 --> 01:25:28,719 i don't know what lou's book will 2249 01:25:32,790 --> 01:25:29,920 contain 2250 01:25:35,270 --> 01:25:32,800 um you know he's had a long long 2251 01:25:38,470 --> 01:25:35,280 history in counterintelligence and all 2252 01:25:39,430 --> 01:25:38,480 of that so a lot of that would be off 2253 01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:39,440 limits 2254 01:25:42,390 --> 01:25:41,600 in terms of anything you put in the book 2255 01:25:44,470 --> 01:25:42,400 so 2256 01:25:46,709 --> 01:25:44,480 um i it'll be interesting i'll be 2257 01:25:48,629 --> 01:25:46,719 interested to read the book 2258 01:25:50,470 --> 01:25:48,639 yeah i think many of us will and i hope 2259 01:25:52,149 --> 01:25:50,480 it's vindication for a lot of what lewis 2260 01:25:54,390 --> 01:25:52,159 said and obviously george like you say 2261 01:25:56,870 --> 01:25:54,400 it clarifies a few points as well 2262 01:25:59,189 --> 01:25:56,880 um a quick yes or no from both of you 2263 01:26:01,189 --> 01:25:59,199 calm start with yourself will we get 2264 01:26:03,990 --> 01:26:01,199 more hearings in the us this year on 2265 01:26:07,990 --> 01:26:05,830 hearings um 2266 01:26:09,990 --> 01:26:08,000 it really depends on how energetic 2267 01:26:12,229 --> 01:26:10,000 congress are i think 2268 01:26:13,830 --> 01:26:12,239 i think you know it's becoming obvious 2269 01:26:15,350 --> 01:26:13,840 that um 2270 01:26:18,790 --> 01:26:15,360 the office of 2271 01:26:20,709 --> 01:26:18,800 ousdi are are sort of they're not 2272 01:26:21,830 --> 01:26:20,719 exactly a 2273 01:26:23,669 --> 01:26:21,840 you know 2274 01:26:27,270 --> 01:26:23,679 they're not lighting the fire on this 2275 01:26:30,229 --> 01:26:27,280 topic so it really depends on how 2276 01:26:32,229 --> 01:26:30,239 aggressive congress are but i do know 2277 01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:32,239 that in the next month or so there's 2278 01:26:36,950 --> 01:26:34,800 going to be some major revelations 2279 01:26:39,669 --> 01:26:36,960 in terms of congressional 2280 01:26:42,870 --> 01:26:39,679 input into the process 2281 01:26:46,149 --> 01:26:42,880 whereby um you know there's as you know 2282 01:26:48,830 --> 01:26:46,159 there's um there's a budget that's for 2283 01:26:52,550 --> 01:26:48,840 2023 is being written and so the 2284 01:26:54,950 --> 01:26:52,560 appropriation and the authorization uh 2285 01:26:57,189 --> 01:26:54,960 language is pretty well all written and 2286 01:26:58,149 --> 01:26:57,199 settled and been negotiated behind the 2287 01:27:01,030 --> 01:26:58,159 scenes 2288 01:27:04,310 --> 01:27:01,040 uh for for that budget so there there 2289 01:27:05,510 --> 01:27:04,320 will be language inserted into the into 2290 01:27:07,430 --> 01:27:05,520 this 2291 01:27:08,310 --> 01:27:07,440 authorization act 2292 01:27:11,669 --> 01:27:08,320 um 2293 01:27:14,709 --> 01:27:11,679 in in order to give more support to the 2294 01:27:16,550 --> 01:27:14,719 general ufo topic and i know that that's 2295 01:27:18,470 --> 01:27:16,560 going to be announced in the next two to 2296 01:27:21,110 --> 01:27:18,480 four weeks 2297 01:27:23,669 --> 01:27:21,120 but i and i think that will be a shot in 2298 01:27:26,070 --> 01:27:23,679 the arm depending on how comprehensive 2299 01:27:28,629 --> 01:27:26,080 the language is uh in terms of 2300 01:27:31,030 --> 01:27:28,639 supporting this uh this whole process 2301 01:27:33,669 --> 01:27:31,040 because you know you've got the 2302 01:27:36,229 --> 01:27:33,679 very very high quality 2303 01:27:39,270 --> 01:27:36,239 uh senate senate and congressional 2304 01:27:41,750 --> 01:27:39,280 staffers and senate senate people and 2305 01:27:43,110 --> 01:27:41,760 congress people on the one hand and then 2306 01:27:45,510 --> 01:27:43,120 you've got the 2307 01:27:48,790 --> 01:27:45,520 uh the people in the pentagon who are 2308 01:27:51,110 --> 01:27:48,800 not exactly bald fire in in terms of 2309 01:27:53,830 --> 01:27:51,120 what they're willing to do or going the 2310 01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:53,840 extra mile to make uh to make hearings 2311 01:27:58,629 --> 01:27:56,239 happen so it's it's going to be a very 2312 01:28:00,470 --> 01:27:58,639 interesting tug of war 2313 01:28:01,830 --> 01:28:00,480 george i'll put the final question to 2314 01:28:03,750 --> 01:28:01,840 you um 2315 01:28:06,149 --> 01:28:03,760 what is the likelihood that we get more 2316 01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:06,159 footage or images released this year as 2317 01:28:10,709 --> 01:28:09,520 pertains to ufos obviously 2318 01:28:12,149 --> 01:28:10,719 i think there's a pretty good chance 2319 01:28:13,910 --> 01:28:12,159 we're going to see some footage i think 2320 01:28:15,510 --> 01:28:13,920 there is almost zero chance we're going 2321 01:28:17,910 --> 01:28:15,520 to get some footage from the pentagon 2322 01:28:19,990 --> 01:28:17,920 itself i think it's the release will 2323 01:28:23,669 --> 01:28:20,000 come from somewhere else uh 2324 01:28:25,350 --> 01:28:23,679 it'll be confirmed as as real stuff 2325 01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:25,360 i don't know exact date on when that 2326 01:28:30,229 --> 01:28:27,280 could happen but it's out there there's 2327 01:28:31,669 --> 01:28:30,239 material that that needs to be vetted 2328 01:28:34,149 --> 01:28:31,679 uh you know i don't i don't think 2329 01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:34,159 there's any i don't detect any kind of 2330 01:28:39,270 --> 01:28:36,880 appetite from the pentagon to release 2331 01:28:41,350 --> 01:28:39,280 much meaningful footage we saw the clip 2332 01:28:43,350 --> 01:28:41,360 you saw it in the hearing whoopty do you 2333 01:28:44,709 --> 01:28:43,360 know we were just bowled over you could 2334 01:28:46,950 --> 01:28:44,719 have been knocked over with a feather 2335 01:28:48,550 --> 01:28:46,960 about that dramatic footage that we saw 2336 01:28:50,390 --> 01:28:48,560 we know damn good and well they've got 2337 01:28:51,990 --> 01:28:50,400 better stuff than that 2338 01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:52,000 we know damn good and well they've shown 2339 01:28:55,350 --> 01:28:53,360 better stuff than that to members of 2340 01:28:57,270 --> 01:28:55,360 congress behind closed doors 2341 01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:57,280 why don't we get to see it you know i 2342 01:29:01,910 --> 01:28:58,960 suspect that they can use the national 2343 01:29:04,390 --> 01:29:01,920 security excuse uh there's only so much 2344 01:29:06,390 --> 01:29:04,400 they want to alert our adversaries to 2345 01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:06,400 about how far along they've they are on 2346 01:29:11,189 --> 01:29:09,360 this study so i i am not encouraged you 2347 01:29:13,510 --> 01:29:11,199 know it's going to have to take congress 2348 01:29:15,510 --> 01:29:13,520 to keep their feet to the fire on this 2349 01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:15,520 because as column has mentioned 2350 01:29:20,229 --> 01:29:17,840 the pentagon drags its feet it always 2351 01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:20,239 has it is hostile to this topic at least 2352 01:29:23,910 --> 01:29:22,000 to the public release of information 2353 01:29:25,750 --> 01:29:23,920 about it it doesn't want to be told to 2354 01:29:27,750 --> 01:29:25,760 go out and investigate this 2355 01:29:29,669 --> 01:29:27,760 um you know there are individuals in the 2356 01:29:32,310 --> 01:29:29,679 pentagon of course who are 2357 01:29:34,709 --> 01:29:32,320 avid supporters of the idea who want 2358 01:29:37,189 --> 01:29:34,719 some kind of a more public disclosure 2359 01:29:38,950 --> 01:29:37,199 who think it deserves to be investigated 2360 01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:38,960 but i think they're not in positions of 2361 01:29:42,629 --> 01:29:40,560 authority uh the people who are calling 2362 01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:42,639 the shots don't want this to 2363 01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:44,639 to move forward in a meaningful way 2364 01:29:48,149 --> 01:29:46,560 we'll see when the budget numbers come 2365 01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:48,159 out is it going to be you know one 2366 01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:49,920 number i heard kicked around was 35 2367 01:29:54,950 --> 01:29:51,120 million dollars 2368 01:29:57,110 --> 01:29:54,960 aim song or whatever they want to call 2369 01:29:58,390 --> 01:29:57,120 it that'd be pretty good 2370 01:30:01,189 --> 01:29:58,400 that'd be great 2371 01:30:02,709 --> 01:30:01,199 i'll believe it when i see it 2372 01:30:04,950 --> 01:30:02,719 gentlemen can i just thank you both for 2373 01:30:06,550 --> 01:30:04,960 your time you've been very very generous 2374 01:30:08,149 --> 01:30:06,560 and i hope to have you back on before 2375 01:30:09,669 --> 01:30:08,159 the end of the year and just to remind 2376 01:30:11,830 --> 01:30:09,679 folks i'm going to do the youtube thing 2377 01:30:13,990 --> 01:30:11,840 here you can still get your copies of 2378 01:30:15,990 --> 01:30:14,000 skin walkers at the pentagon i recommend 2379 01:30:17,510 --> 01:30:16,000 it thoroughly i know a lot of listeners 2380 01:30:19,669 --> 01:30:17,520 have both bought the book and had the 2381 01:30:21,270 --> 01:30:19,679 audio book as well so please do check 2382 01:30:22,950 --> 01:30:21,280 that out and gentlemen thank you very 2383 01:30:25,510 --> 01:30:22,960 much again for your time 2384 01:30:27,510 --> 01:30:25,520 thanks andy thank you that is all for 2385 01:30:29,430 --> 01:30:27,520 this week's show thank you very much for 2386 01:30:32,229 --> 01:30:29,440 listening please remember to leave the 2387 01:30:34,950 --> 01:30:32,239 podcaster review on your chosen platform 2388 01:30:37,110 --> 01:30:34,960 you can like retweet and subscribe that 2389 01:30:39,110 --> 01:30:37,120 would all be very much appreciated the 2390 01:30:41,030 --> 01:30:39,120 shows are being uploaded onto youtube as 2391 01:30:43,669 --> 01:30:41,040 we speak more and more you can sign up 2392 01:30:46,390 --> 01:30:43,679 at patreon.com forward slash that ufo 2393 01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:46,400 podcast to access shows ad free as well 2394 01:30:51,430 --> 01:30:48,560 please get in touch on twitter facebook 2395 01:30:54,629 --> 01:30:51,440 instagram that ufo podcast of course on 2396 01:30:56,709 --> 01:30:54,639 twitter it's at ufouapam 2397 01:30:59,700 --> 01:30:56,719 and again folks as always keep looking 2398 01:31:22,790 --> 01:30:59,710 up you never know what you might see 2399 01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:28,090 but i'd had some champagne 2400 01:31:28,100 --> 01:31:35,830 [Music] 2401 01:31:38,950 --> 01:31:37,350 i can't imagine how it could have been 2402 01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:38,960 any better 2403 01:31:49,440 --> 01:31:56,629 [Music] 2404 01:31:59,590 --> 01:31:57,910 there was something on my head and 2405 01:32:01,350 --> 01:31:59,600 everything was weird and everything was 2406 01:32:02,790 --> 01:32:01,360 red i helped out my boys they thought 2407 01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:02,800 this was nice they thought it was a 2408 01:32:35,030 --> 01:32:30,520 [Music] 2409 01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:44,370 for being serious 2410 01:33:06,950 --> 01:32:52,229 [Music] 2411 01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:06,960 it 2412 01:33:54,149 --> 01:33:25,850 [Music] 2413 01:34:06,250 --> 01:33:55,830 yes